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Old 10-27-2013, 02:11 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Fairview View Post
Have you read the fine print of your policy? Getting a new furnace for one age 30 seems a little optimistic without at least prorating but I suppose anything is possible.
Generally, its in all home warranty contracts that they will replace a furnace that can not be repaired. no age exclusion is listed.

In the past, I have had them pay to replace 30 plus year old A/Cs.

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Old 10-27-2013, 02:42 PM   #17
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I'm not too worried about the age...
I'm worried about the fact that they could tell me the furnace is still running
I hope the contractor will admit that the furnace is not running well and needs a repair or a replacement !!!
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Old 10-27-2013, 03:03 PM   #18
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The ONLY real authority is the gas inspector. If it is truly dangerous he will red tag it/shut it down and if dangerous enough shut off the gas to it. The warranty co will fudge around but the gas inspector has the authority to get things done. There are 3 scenarios where I am.

1) hairline crack with no flame disturbance - notify customer heat exchanger needs replacing and document it
2) crack with minor flame disturbance - get gas co to check it and tell customer it is dangerous and needs new heat exchanger or replacement and document it
3) CO or flame rollout - red alert, call gas co and have them come down immediately to shut off gas

Yellow wavy flames can be caused by dirty burners and some other problems (like poor draft) so it is up to the inspector to check it and he may have misdiagnosed it and said the crack is causing those flames. The inspector makes the decision and it sounds like the tech was being careful what he said.

If it is cracked and dangerous then ONLY when the fan starts will the flame get disturbed as air gets thru it and pushes the flame around. Sometimes it take 5 mins B4 the crack opens up from expansion. If those flames are yellow/wavy w/o the fan on then the crack is not the problem.

It does come down to what the inspector and local authorities deem bad enough to require replacing. Hairline cracks sometimes they leave alone. I can find a hairline crack in any furnace. Depends where it is and whether it can cause trouble. It is a VERY touchy sensitive issue as to what constitutes danger and depends on your local authorities interpretation of the gas code. The warranty co will go by their rules and the gas code.
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Old 10-28-2013, 05:00 PM   #19
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Yuri, I shorten that list.

Hairline crack: Redtag. Document. Depending on reaction from customer, shut down.

Crack with flame disturbance: Shut down. Redtag, document. Plug gas tanks or call gas company.

CO or flame rollout: Shut down. Redtag, Document. Disable unit. Plug gas tanks or call gas company.

No one dies on my watch. No one. Yes, a bit reactionary, but I need to sleep at night and know that a family is not in danger because I did too little. Of course I am professional about it, but if it is dangerous, I don't mess around.
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Old 10-28-2013, 05:03 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by french_guy View Post
I'm not too worried about the age...
I'm worried about the fact that they could tell me the furnace is still running
I hope the contractor will admit that the furnace is not running well and needs a repair or a replacement !!!
Can you get the guy back out and have him show you the crack? Have him take pictures. Have the guy show you the steps to get to the area where he saw the opening so, if you have to, you can show it to the home warranty guy. Get pictures and video if you can... the more prepared for a fight you are, the less you will have to fight.


My Edit: And look, you have a situation where this is dangerous. You can fight all you want, but the unit needs to go. You need to start thinking about that now and plan for what you are going to do if they tell you to pound sand.
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Last edited by FClef; 10-28-2013 at 05:05 PM. Reason: Forgot to say something important:
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Old 10-28-2013, 05:22 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FClef View Post
Yuri, I shorten that list.

Hairline crack: Redtag. Document. Depending on reaction from customer, shut down.

Crack with flame disturbance: Shut down. Redtag, document. Plug gas tanks or call gas company.

CO or flame rollout: Shut down. Redtag, Document. Disable unit. Plug gas tanks or call gas company.

No one dies on my watch. No one. Yes, a bit reactionary, but I need to sleep at night and know that a family is not in danger because I did too little. Of course I am professional about it, but if it is dangerous, I don't mess around.
It is a VERY touchy situation and I don't have the legal authority to shut off the gas especially with the severe cold temps I get. ( I cannot put a lock on the meter only the gas co can and if I shut off the gas the homeowner turns it back on the minute I leave anyway). I call the authorities and all the ph calls are recorded so once they are informed then I am off the hook. In VERY severe cases I call the Dept of Labor the next day as they control everything especially when accidents happen and lawsuits and lawyers get involved.
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Old 10-28-2013, 05:30 PM   #22
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It is a VERY touchy situation and I don't have the legal authority to shut off the gas especially with the severe cold temps I get. ( I cannot put a lock on the meter only the gas co can and if I shut off the gas the homeowner turns it back on the minute I leave anyway). I call the authorities and all the ph calls are recorded so once they are informed then I am off the hook. In VERY severe cases I call the Dept of Labor the next day as they control everything especially when accidents happen and lawsuits and lawyers get involved.
Things are a little different here in the USA... at least in my area. I won't lock out propane tanks unless I have to. I don't touch natural gas lines at the meter, but I can shut off the gas valve to the unit... and I document that I have done so. I have never once shut someone down without a damn good reason and I always help them get an alternate, temporary heat source so they can at least live in the home until the unit is fixed.

When I shut things down, if the homeowner hooks things back up and fires the unit, I did my job. I've been in this business a long, long time. No one ever died on my watch... and that is because I make no bones about things that are dangerous. At the end of the day the name of the game is cover your ass... and do right by your customer.
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Old 10-28-2013, 06:38 PM   #23
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with these new smart phones we can take High Def Pics and video so we can be better protected. amazing what technology we have. back in the 70's when I wuz 13 the first calculator came out. could do +/-/X and divide. WOW . The we got a M1 and M2 memory and were really off to the races.
Kids these days will never know how we suffered back then.
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Old 10-30-2013, 06:37 AM   #24
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Apparently, the home warranty should work and replace the furnace. The tech found a hair line crack, and it told me he will ask the warranty for a new one
However, they don't pay for everything. He told me they usually provide the furnace itself (a 80% efficiency Payne) and 4 hours of labor.
Other stuff such as new flue (dual wall) and modification of the gas connection to fit the new furnace is not covered since they consider this as "Modifications" !!!!
If I wanted to go with a higher efficiency model, they will give me a buy out for my current unit but according to him, the price they give is laughable....
So I guess I will go with the 80%, which is still much better than my 30 years old furnace
By the way, he said he will put a smaller unit (in terms of BTU) because it will provide a much uniform heat in the whole house compare to what I have right now
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Old 10-30-2013, 08:07 AM   #25
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good 4 U. glad to hear it is going to work out in your favor. the smaller unit is because MOST of those old units were oversized and a lot of the heat went up the chimney. a smaller unit is sized to fit your house and less of it's heat goes up the chimney and into your house instead so you will be fine.
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Old 10-30-2013, 12:25 PM   #26
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Always glad when something works out.

I guess an 80% efficiency unit is better than nothing. I would opt for a higher one, but that is just me.

Let us know if you have more questions.
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Old 10-30-2013, 07:00 PM   #27
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good 4 U. glad to hear it is going to work out in your favor. the smaller unit is because MOST of those old units were oversized and a lot of the heat went up the chimney. a smaller unit is sized to fit your house and less of it's heat goes up the chimney and into your house instead so you will be fine.
This is exactly what he said, about the heat loss thru the chimney...
He also said he would prefer to modify the air return to have it on the bottom and side of the furnace, and not only on the side as it is right now
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Old 10-30-2013, 07:55 PM   #28
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you have a very good and smart contractor and are lucky to have him. the furnace needs more return air and he is doing the proper job by doing it that way. hang on to him.
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Old 10-30-2013, 11:51 PM   #29
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glad to hear a happy ending to a home warranty story. on here i only hear about the big bad faceless HW. my company does a lot of work with one in particular and i have to say they treat the customer more than fair and they treat us more than fair. last week my secretary over looked a bill that was supposed to go to the HW company. they called us up after they recognized they had approved it and never got billed for it. i couldn't believe they asked to pay us.

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Old 11-06-2013, 02:52 PM   #30
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Well, apparently the Home Warranty company has ordered a new furnace to replace my old one
The model they have ordered is a basic one though: It's a Payne PG8MAA048090, which is an entry level apparently
But I guess it's better than nothing (I hope....!!!)

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