need some immediate help from hvac guys online now(sunday morning)

**beenthere** · 12-14-2008, 01:07 PM

Do you have a drip leg on this line?

yuri · 12-14-2008, 01:13 PM

Have you ever seen that kind of blockage Beenthere? Read my post above yours.

**beenthere** · 12-14-2008, 01:19 PM

Isn't this the used unit he installed himself a few months ago.

May have been the dirt from who ever he got it from.

Does sound like old pipe was used to pipe it up.

Or, his gas has a lot more water in it then any around here.

Here, only have that kind of build up, on old systems, or very old rusting gas piping.

MrShadetree0222 · 12-14-2008, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yuri

That is a very strange and dangerous condition you have there. There should be NO rust and dirt in ANY gas line to that extent. As the screen starts to plug up it reduces the flow/capacity of the gas valve and the flow to the burners. You will get an improper gas/air mixture and poor combustion and possible CO carbon monoxide production. Sounds to me like you need to have the entire gas line replaced from the meter to the unit or this will keep happening. The propane may have been the cause of the rusting if it was bad quality. You now have a rusty gas line which could spring a leak. There should be a drip tee in the gas line where it enters the unit for the dirt to fall into. I have NEVER seen much dirt in there in over 30 yrs so I suspect you got a much bigger problem. I have seen a few iron pipe thread cuttings and cutting oil but not a large amount of rust/dirt.

TY for the responce but the gas lines and fittings on my side of the meter are brand new form the meter to the furnace and all are black iron! Now on the gas co.s side of the meter they have used galvanized elbows and joints and they are very heavily rusted on the outside so i can only assume they are just as rusted on the inside and judging by the looks these are the true original fittings put in place during original installation of ng well over 20 yrs ago when they brought ng to the neighborhood!! and this house has been without gas service for 7.5 yrs prior to my service being turned on!
we got an estimated half dollar of rust and dirt or whatever it is- out of the gas valve and after knocking on the gasline with a hammer inline from meter to the flexline we got an additional halfdollar worth of debris or rust or dirt whatever it is oput of the line(when purged the line it was pruged into a sock so the debris could be accounted for) and it does look or appear to be nothinig more then rust!
the meter is a new reconditioned unit so i dont supect the rust coming from the newly reconditioned meter!

The propane use was not at this residense, the home that i purchased the hvac unit form was equipped with lp, so when i got it here for the install thats when it was discovered that it was setup for lp, so i had to either redo the conversion and change it back to ng or replace the gas valve and orifices and change it back to ng, so i took the safer of options and changed the gas valve and orifices! so it is now equipped and setup for ng.

Continual imput still needed at this point to find out if this rust-dirt-debris, (whatever it is) could of been the cause of the issue since i was able to give it a whack the other day and it started operating properly? and now today i blew out the lines to find all this junk in the lines!

yuri · 12-14-2008, 02:03 PM

If some of that crap made it past the screen in the form of dust it could be inside the guts of the valve (DO NOT disassemble it) and causing the valve to malfunction or the valve may be sticking/defective on its own. You may want to save the sample of the rust and call the gas supplier to see if they will do anything about their part. The temporary heaters look pretty attractive now?

MrShadetree0222 · 12-14-2008, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beenthere

Do you have a drip leg on this line?

No sir i dont have a drip "t" in line but i can and will install one if needed?
I did get an over lengthed stainless steel (ng approved) flexpipe to go from the gas valve on the outside of the unit the the inside of the unit to connect to the gas galve so that i could put a "p" trap in it for this reason of catching any debris or whatever comes along? so the flex line has @ a 4" drop in the line then it risies back up to meet the gas valve! This was installed during the original install at my residense! But apparently didnt work as planned or else i would nt of gotten this much crap in my valve!

yuri · 12-14-2008, 02:14 PM

You REALLY need one badly. The gas comes in the side of the tee exits the top and the 4-6 inch drip tee goes at the bottom with a cap on a nipple. You can then drain or inspect it for more debris and show it to the gas supplier if necessary.

MrShadetree0222 · 12-14-2008, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yuri

If some of that crap made it past the screen in the form of dust it could be inside the guts of the valve (DO NOT disassemble it) and causing the valve to malfunction or the valve may be sticking/defective on its own. You may want to save the sample of the rust and call the gas supplier to see if they will do anything about their part. The temporary heaters look pretty attractive now?

I am pretty sure there is a warranty on my gas valve purchased at a reputable supplier in the area so i could easily remove it and get it exchanged with the possibilty that this might be an issue, of something did make its way through the screens in the gas valve adding to my problem! but i would like to continue to investigate this problem keeping exchange of the gas valve in mind!

yuri · 12-14-2008, 02:16 PM

Read my post above yours for more info.

Good Luck

MrShadetree0222 · 12-14-2008, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yuri

You REALLY need one badly. The gas comes in the side of the tee exits the top and the 4-6 inch drip tee goes at the bottom with a cap on a nipple. You can then drain or inspect it for more debris and show it to the gas supplier if necessary.

Is this a readily available item at the local hd, or lws? or is this something i have to make?(bunch of different parts) will local stores know what i am talking about? now i have a better explanation of the drip "t" and how it works it makes a lot better functionality sence then the 'p' trap design i innitially went with! i was thinking of this problem or else i wouldnt of gotten the over lengthed flexline to compinsate fo rthe 'p' trap design i thought of!

MrShadetree0222 · 12-14-2008, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yuri

You REALLY need one badly. The gas comes in the side of the tee exits the top and the 4-6 inch drip tee goes at the bottom with a cap on a nipple. You can then drain or inspect it for more debris and show it to the gas supplier if necessary.

I still have the sock undisturbed from the purging i will make a trip to town tomarrow to get the gas valve replaced, and i will stop by the ng co. to show them what come of my purge, and see what they think, but i am sure they will do everything in their power not to have to do any replacing of their lines on thier end! but every single inch of my lines are brand new, so the problem lies on thier end! now just convincing them of it!

yuri · 12-14-2008, 02:24 PM

Home Depot here sells black iron fittings. You need to make it from 3/4" tee, nipple and cap and use proper teflon based pipe dope/Masters metallic dope and not teflon tape. Paint it with gray Tremclad rust paint for protection.

hvaclover · 12-14-2008, 03:49 PM

Water in NG lines is not uncommon in old gas mains. We got one part of the city of Detroit that used to have so much water in the mains(leeched in from ground water the study said) that burners were rusting out with in two years.
Drip legs didn't help.
I am not surprised that Shade found water in his own supply lines.

**beenthere** · 12-14-2008, 04:21 PM

Most of our old cast iron gas lines under teh street have been replaced.

MrShadetree0222 · 12-15-2008, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beenthere

Most of our old cast iron gas lines under teh street have been replaced.

well after speaking with a neighbor about my issue he offered some valuable information about the gas lines in that run down the street are the orange plastic/ polypropylene or whatever material the orange lines are made of(per: my neighbor old man lived here for 65 yrs). and they are the original gas lines that have been in the ground for 18 yrs since the ng came to the neighborhood. per: my neighbor the lines are 5' in the ground.
And the only thing that is steel(metal of any sort) in the application is where the gas-co.s do the taps which are typically made of brass(per: neighbor again) and the uprisors( which he wasnt sure what metal was used during installof the risors per: neighbor again; the pipes that come from 5 ft in the ground to the input side of the meter) and then the joints at the top of the meter on gas-co. side of the meter!

Now on my side of the meter all parts are 100% new black iron!
So i am looking for a suggestive possibility to where all the crap came form! if original lines are plastic/polypropolyne or whatever they are they dont rust, and brass taps which dont rust either where else could the crap of came form?
Now does the meter not have filters in it at all? If the meter had filters in it then how could any crap from gas co.s side of the meter be getting to my system? The parts on gas co.s side of the meter are rusted and aged very very badly actually in my opinion at an unsafe point, if the uprisor and joints to connect to the meter where done in say galvanized then if there parts are rusting internally could i be getting rust from these parts into my unit even through a filter maybe installed in the meter? Again this is a freshly remanufactured meter not a worn out rusted up 30 yr old pos. meter?

Now I did go out today and purchase the parts to build and install the "drip 't' " and i will get this installed in the morning before heading to town to try to exchange the gas valve( i have reserved cash form x-mas funds from kids and grandkid to make sure this gets replaced regardless of exchange or replacement) per: some suggestions that this much crap in my gas valve filter could of also allowed some of the micro fibered crap to of gotten into the gas valve and also be causing some of my problems!
So i hope to be able to photograph and post the finished product tomarrrow for critisism, just to see how I done in buildig and installing my first "drip t" Keep you posted!

But seriously i just dont understand or comprehend the consept nor can anyone else around here on this end comprehend how this much crap is in a newly remanufactured meter, .5 psi brand new gas line, and brand new gas valve!

My neighbor a very wise old man has led me to believe that when gas-co.s installed the gas lines he is confident that uprisors are the problem, and if they arent then the joints at the meter on gas-co.s side is to blame!
He was here when they brought electricity into this town, he was here when they brought city water, and even brought in city sewer notto long ago, he never coul dunderstand how this community got gas lines even before the town got sewer lines since sewer lines were not installed till not to long ago!

Again sorry so long but i really wanted to have a chance to calm down( hard to do after tonights survivor) and try to get the concept or understanding of all this with a more rational thawed out brain capable of thinking of how or what! Typing all this was easy to do with my brain thawed out thanks to a couple of them 20.00 heaters suggested earlier in this thread! and grandbaby is fast asleep warm and toasty in his room!