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Old 12-14-2008, 09:04 AM   #1
1921 Sears&Robuc
 
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need some immediate help from hvac guys online now(sunday morning)


post deleted for multiple errors in the post! correction of the post below!
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My house, a 1921 Sears-Robuk 1 1/2 story 4 bedroom, 2 bath 1975 sqr ft house! Ordered March 1921, delivered via: railcar 1922, assembled October 1922! Ignorance is not having the knowledge of', Stupidity is having the knowledge of' and not using it!

Last edited by MrShadetree0222; 12-14-2008 at 09:54 AM.
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Old 12-14-2008, 09:30 AM   #2
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ok the fault/code reader system is not showing any default codes, so i had wifey turn on the unit while i was standing outside with the doors(access panels removed, and the unit just fired right up??? I did nothing to the unit what so ever but remove the access panels from the front of the unit?
and their is was no a pile of ice under the gas valve, it was just a an area that had pipe dope on it and i had wiped away the pipe dope leaving the residue that looked like ice, but again no ice under the gas valve!

What area do i need to start looking for my problem? A unit just doesnt quit working for no resason and remove the access panels and the unit just fire right up something has to be wrong with it somewhere?

Any and all help is needed and appreciated! I have my 18 mnth old grandson in the house this is now our only heating source since fireplace ot installed yet, and i am willing to be cold but i refuse to let my grandson get cold!!!!!! Please help!
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Old 12-14-2008, 09:45 AM   #3
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Sounds like you got a poor electrical connection somewhere and removing the door/whacking it completes the connection. Check the thermostat wire connections where they enter the unit and any other visible connections for looseness/corrosion. Got to Home Depot and buy 4 of those cheap $20 1500 watt heaters until the problem is solved. Keep them for backup for the future. I have them and I do this for a living.

Last edited by yuri; 12-14-2008 at 09:48 AM. Reason: add info
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Old 12-14-2008, 09:47 AM   #4
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sorry for all the errors and corrections i was typing very quickly and not yet awake(hard to awaken to 45 dewgrees in your house and brain thaw out enough to type properly, but here is what we have a 1999 goodman furnace/package unit heat and air outside located unit 92000 btu, with new gas valve(esi) new thermostat, and new ignitor.
problem: we woke the other day with it 40 something in the house and i went out removed the access panels and found nothing wrong with the unit other then not getting any gas when the unit was calling for the initial boost of gas for the ignitor to spark to ignite the gas so i figured it was a gas problem, so i purged the gas lines at the furnace, and gave the gas valve a thump with my fist(thinking gas valve maybe stuck) and the unit just fired right up!

And worked just fine till today we again woke to to 45% degrees in the house with nothing but cold air pumping out the unit into house, so i again go outside remove the acces panels and holler fo rwife to fire up the unit, now this time i done nothing but remove the acces panels and tell her to start up the system and it fired right up no problems at all.

So i am very confussed as to whats going on or why it is going on? All i done was removed the acces panels and the unit fired right up, and nw 68 degrees in the house right this minute as typing this line, and furnace still just a pumping away heating the house back up???

Again very sorry for any confusion i caused in the previous messages, i was distraught form confusion of the unit not working again, and the aggrevation of the it being cold in my house htis mornig and wakening to this crap again.. So again any and all help is please needed.... i cannot just put it back together agaiun thiunking that everything is fixed when nothing was doen to fix the problem all i doen was remove the access panels form the unit and it fired back up again!
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Old 12-14-2008, 09:49 AM   #5
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Look at my post above yours.
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Old 12-14-2008, 09:51 AM   #6
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Ice on the gas valve would indicate that the products of combustion are back flowing into vestibule and probably the home. That year of Goodman was known for heat exchanger failure due to the cell rings failing.

Do you have a monoxide detector in your home?


[img=http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/6468/janitrolhtexringsbq4.th.jpg][IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/John/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-5.jpg[/IMG]
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Last edited by hvaclover; 12-14-2008 at 10:01 AM.
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Old 12-14-2008, 09:53 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hvaclover View Post
Ice on the gas valve would indicate that the products of combustion are back flowing into vestibule and probably the home. That year of Goodman was known for heat exchanger failure due to the cell rings failing.

Do you have a monoxide detector in your home?
that was a misrepresented statement, i corrected that statement that thier was no ice in the unit it was nothing but left over pipedope on the drop pan in the bottom of the unit, againit wasnt ice! I was making that diagnosis when it was dark outside at 0330 hrs in the morning and it just looked to be ice at that hour in the mornig when not awake and freezing to death!
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Old 12-14-2008, 10:08 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrShadetree0222 View Post
that was a misrepresented statement, i corrected that statement that thier was no ice in the unit it was nothing but left over pipedope on the drop pan in the bottom of the unit, againit wasnt ice! I was making that diagnosis when it was dark outside at 0330 hrs in the morning and it just looked to be ice at that hour in the mornig when not awake and freezing to death!

Ok. Give Yuri's approach. I have had loose connections on jobs that would drive a guy crazy.


But pleas Shade, pull the top and look at the heat exchanger! I'm worried for your safety guy
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Old 12-14-2008, 10:24 AM   #9
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Could be popped crimp rings, not letting the pressure switch close when it has to restart soon after a previous heat cycle.
Moisture in the pressure switch.
Moisture in the pressure switch hose.
High limit tripping when crimps open.

Or a loose connection.
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Old 12-14-2008, 10:49 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
Could be popped crimp rings, not letting the pressure switch close when it has to restart soon after a previous heat cycle.
Moisture in the pressure switch.
Moisture in the pressure switch hose.
High limit tripping when crimps open.

Or a loose connection.
TY you all for speedy possiblities for my problem, but please help me understand and or figure out these "crimp rings" and pressure switch. is th epressure switch not the gas valve? the gas valve is what controls tthe amount of pressure the feeds the orifices correct? if the gas valv eis the same intenty as the pressure switch the that is brand new and has yet to of been a problem thus far thus far this season?((replaced when system installed to convert back to ng-from-lp))
sorry fo rmy delay in responce as i am watching and testing and diagnosising as the units operates propely so i am runnign in and out back and forths watching for responses form you guys while i am trying to get this thing figured out! The unit is still working 100% normally right now!
done cycled about 6 more times just fine with no problems! I am going to remove the gas valve to see if any blockage in the screens(inside of the gas valve) i can purge the gas line but the purge point is before the gas valve so if a blockage does exist it is on the gas valve side of the line since i can purge the line before the gas valve!

be back in a few after the breakdown of the gas valve to inspect fr blockages,
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Old 12-14-2008, 10:54 AM   #11
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Oh God, he's taking apart the gas valve?
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Old 12-14-2008, 10:56 AM   #12
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[IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/John/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-6.jpg[/IMG]
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Old 12-14-2008, 10:58 AM   #13
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Pressure switches are safety devices.
A hose will run from the inducer to teh switch.
If teh switch doesn't sense X amount of negative pressure, it will not close to energize teh gas valve.

Crimp rings, are what is used to hold the individual heat exchanger cells together. Sort of a giant pop rivit.
As they weaken, they pop off. And can let air be pulled throuhg the HX easier then it should be.
This lessens the negative draft the inducer can produce, the switch senses the lower pressure, and either does not close, or opens. Causing the gas valve to close.
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Old 12-14-2008, 11:40 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hvaclover View Post
Oh God, he's taking apart the gas valve?
No not taking the gas valve apart i was removing the gas valve( big difference disassembling the gas valve and removing the gas valve read the post) to inspect for blockages in the screen in the gas valves and my guess was correct, the gas valve at the filter screens were completely filled with rust, and dirt, after turning the gas valve upside down dumping the rust and dirt out of it i purged the line again and the went inline of the gas line from meter to furnace and tamped on it with a hammer to knock loose anything else that might have been in the line then reinstalled th egas valve and the flex line and fired the unit back up. Of course it is working since it was working earlier before i done the rust-in-line inspection.
But gotta know could this of been my problem? Since i want to atleast hope i fixed the problem before i put the access panels back on the unit?
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Old 12-14-2008, 12:04 PM   #15
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That is a very strange and dangerous condition you have there. There should be NO rust and dirt in ANY gas line to that extent. As the screen starts to plug up it reduces the flow/capacity of the gas valve and the flow to the burners. You will get an improper gas/air mixture and poor combustion and possible CO carbon monoxide production. Sounds to me like you need to have the entire gas line replaced from the meter to the unit or this will keep happening. The propane may have been the cause of the rusting if it was bad quality. You now have a rusty gas line which could spring a leak. There should be a drip tee in the gas line where it enters the unit for the dirt to fall into. I have NEVER seen much dirt in there in over 30 yrs so I suspect you got a much bigger problem. I have seen a few iron pipe thread cuttings and cutting oil but not a large amount of rust/dirt.

Last edited by yuri; 12-14-2008 at 12:10 PM. Reason: add info
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