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Old 01-23-2013, 10:11 AM   #16
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Need help w univ control board on ruud furnace


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Originally Posted by JScotty View Post
Whatever you say chief. I've got 9 years experience myself along with my father being in the business for over 40 and we've successfully installed universal boards with no problems. Do we do it all the time? No, but sometimes you can't get a direct replacement & you have to do what it takes to get heat to your customer. Universal boards are not dangerous as long as you read the instructions & install them properly.
I leave a bid for a new furnace and walk away as a last resort, that's how I get them heat. I won't re-nig a board or bypass safety switches, ever. I'm betting you do, right?

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Old 01-23-2013, 11:29 AM   #17
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Need help w univ control board on ruud furnace


Guys,

OK, some great posts, some flames... Let's be nice and put the flames out.


First off, this isn't my first rodeo... I pretty much do my own cars, aircraft, boats, RV's, and you name it, I fix it. Won't even tell you what the family calls me...


But the next time YOU get a WR universal control board, take a look at the instructions, as I did, and you'll see that the Failure Codes LED chart on page 8 has 11 distinct errors or states, each of which indicate the state of the system, or the source of a problem. In order for each state or error to have a unique code assigned to it, each sensor needs to be on its own sensor loop. This is also clearly shown on the wiring diagram on page 4 of the instructions. Using this info, I broke the original harness into the various sensor loops, inserted their wires into the 12 pin connector appropriately, which would be required for the CPU to query each individual sensor loop to determine error.


When I stated earlier that I needed to reverse polarity, and replace the RO sensors, it was because the codes being flashed told me so. In the case of a Rapid Flash, it was 24 V polarity reversed, easy to fix, as the xfmr has 1/4 in connections to the new connector. In the case of the RO sensor, it was actually only one bad sensor; how did I know this? Same way you would, first, the error code was 6 indicating bad RO sensor, and second, I used my VOM to check each sensor in that string, and found one bad RO switch.


In fact, prior to powering up the new board, I buzzed out EVERY sensor, switch, and control on the furnace, to make sure I was not overlooking a bad connection, or another fault that would cause a problem. (We LIVE here, and you think I'm not going to be damned careful?)


So, in reality, I didn't "rewire the board," as someone stated, and I didn't cut any corners. The reality is that the furnace is now probably a safer system than when new, as all of the sensors are set up properly for a state of the art board, which provides additional security with the flame sensor.


As to the original board, it had no flame sensor, but perhaps used the HSI, as speculated in an earlier post; I have no knowledge as to that, but it's certainly possible.


The new board, with the on board diagnostics, will make an easier job of troubleshooting problems with the system going forward.
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Old 01-23-2013, 12:44 PM   #18
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Need help w univ control board on ruud furnace


I would still like to see a well lit and closeup pic of where you put the flame sensor. Borrow a digital camera from a friend or work as phone cameras are not too good. I have seen severe delayed ignition, flashbacks and caused a few myself so nat gas will explode like a bomb if not lit properly. Doors have been blown off the front of furnaces and don't even get me going on delayed igniton with oil burners. You may think it is safe but your neighbors have a right to safety also.
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Old 01-23-2013, 12:56 PM   #19
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this isn't his first rodeo, Yuri. He can build a digital camera with a flame sensor and a control board, mount it to his cesna that he build from egg and flour and fly it into all the dark crevices of the furnace for whatever pics you want. .

op, just messing' with you. we're a laughable bunch here.
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Old 01-23-2013, 01:02 PM   #20
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Beware the infamous "Idiot Valve SVxxxx" I had one get out of sequence and turn on the main valve B4 deciding it was a good idea to energize the igniter. ALWAYS stand to the side of an open burner as you never know what may happen. Lost a few eyebrows and have hairless hands from those lovely events. Jiggling ground wires on a board with a burner on can do the same thng.
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Old 01-23-2013, 01:02 PM   #21
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Yuri,

Please note, this is a horizontal flow furnace, and the pictures have all been uploaded differently than they look - they are all rotated 90 deg. counterclockwise.

Please take a look, and let me know if this looks OK.

Thanks,

Tom
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Need help w univ control board on ruud furnace-sensor-location.jpg   Need help w univ control board on ruud furnace-sensor-start-burner.jpg   Need help w univ control board on ruud furnace-sensor-flame-closeup.jpg  
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Old 01-23-2013, 01:04 PM   #22
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Nice, Doc, Nice...
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Old 01-23-2013, 01:12 PM   #23
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Need help w univ control board on ruud furnace


I hate to say it and you are a smart guy but that bracket looks flimsy and will eventually warp with heat and get out of alignment etc. A universal flame sensor is a straight rod. If I was you I would source out the retrofit kit for that furnace as I believe you may be able to get the bracket and sensor as seperate parts. Looks dangerous to me. If anything ever happens the fire inspector and ins company inspector and Gas authority will crucify you. Does not meet any code now as voids the AGA/CGA and UL ratings. Ignorance of the law/codes is no excuse in any court and I doubt you want to harm your family. I have had several dealings with the gas authority/Dept of Labor where I am and their Pros are mechanical engineers/Class A or 1st class Gas fitters and there is NO way to BS your way out of trouble with those guys.

The retrofit bracket will attach to the burners and mounting bar and the mounting is critical, burners get dirty, gas pressure can fluctuate etc so the positioning is critical.

Americanhvacparts.com and PEXsupply may be helpful.

Good Luck
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Last edited by yuri; 01-23-2013 at 01:22 PM.
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Old 01-23-2013, 03:56 PM   #24
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Need help w univ control board on ruud furnace


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Originally Posted by Doc Holliday View Post
I leave a bid for a new furnace and walk away as a last resort, that's how I get them heat. I won't re-nig a board or bypass safety switches, ever. I'm betting you do, right?
Yeah because wiring around safeties is clearly the same thing as installing a universal board per instructions & then testing all the safeties to make sure they still work.

I'm not going to leave a customer in an unsafe situation, using a universal board isn't unsafe as long as it's properly tested after installing. But hey some people don't have the skill for it & refuse to use anything but OEM parts & thats OK too.
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Old 01-23-2013, 04:01 PM   #25
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Need help w univ control board on ruud furnace


ok so a homeowner can do what ever he wants to get a furnace going make what he feels and attempt to feel safe..great...as a hvac contractor...my company would NEVER try to alter a control board in any way shape or form just to put heat into someones home....very dangerous and not to mention how my insurance company would feel if there was a fire...oh yea would have to lie and hope no one was killed...
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Old 01-23-2013, 04:14 PM   #26
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Need help w univ control board on ruud furnace


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Originally Posted by ben's plumbing View Post
ok so a homeowner can do what ever he wants to get a furnace going make what he feels and attempt to feel safe..great...as a hvac contractor...my company would NEVER try to alter a control board in any way shape or form just to put heat into someones home....very dangerous and not to mention how my insurance company would feel if there was a fire...oh yea would have to lie and hope no one was killed...
No one's altering the board. I'm talking about say for instance rewiring the main limit & rollouts to seperate terminals on the new board per the boards instructions.
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Old 01-23-2013, 05:10 PM   #27
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what board asks, per instructions as you say, to re-wire the internal components of any furnace? please show us all.
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Last edited by Doc Holliday; 01-23-2013 at 05:13 PM.
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Old 01-23-2013, 05:29 PM   #28
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bump.
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Old 01-23-2013, 06:02 PM   #29
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Need help w univ control board on ruud furnace


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what board asks, per instructions as you say, to re-wire the internal components of any furnace? please show us all.
Yeah because I sit around memorizing boards & their instructions all day. No I don't know of a board off the top of my head that I could access instructions to prove it to you. However you seem to believe yuri so let me quote him on the topic:

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even with a S86U universal control some rewiring needs to be done.
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Old 01-23-2013, 06:16 PM   #30
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The Force is absent with this one.

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