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Old 02-28-2010, 04:12 AM   #31
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Need help with heat and hot water issue


Well, if the connections at the transformer sparked when you touched them last time. It will probably do it when you check voltage. But that spark basically indicates a loos connection.

Follow the wires back from the zone valves, and check at connections.
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Old 03-04-2010, 04:27 AM   #32
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Need help with heat and hot water issue


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Well, if the connections at the transformer sparked when you touched them last time. It will probably do it when you check voltage. But that spark basically indicates a loos connection.

Follow the wires back from the zone valves, and check at connections.

Sorry for not posting back as I've been busy working the last few days. Ok, here's what I have done to try to isolate the problem. I shut off all the thermostats in each zone and then I turned one on at a time to see if the zone opens and boiler fires. All the thermostats fire up the boiler and zones open when called for. The thing I notice is that the boiler doesn't stay on until the temps are reached at the thermostats and the boiler itself. I checked for any loose wiring on the aquastat at the boiler and the transformer and relay but couldn't find any. I'm gonna open the electrical box connected to the boiler and see if theres any problems with the wiring. How can I test to see if the aquastat and relays are at fault? Also what is the component next to the relay in the pic below? There's like a metal wire type thing on it. Is that suppose to be able to shift over to the other side? What is its purpose?
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Old 03-04-2010, 04:38 AM   #33
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Need help with heat and hot water issue


That is THE relay. the part where you attach the wires, is just a convenience terminal board.
The wire clip is there to prevent the relay from coming loose or falling out.

You said there is a aquastat on the pipe. is that set for the same temp as the boilers aquastat?

Is it possible the boiler has always operated this way, and you just never took notice before?
Its common for a boiler to have its burner shut off before the room/zone reaches temp. The circulator keeps running and keeps the rad/baseboards/radiant loop fed with hot water. And when the boiler cools down again, The burner restarts.
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Old 03-05-2010, 01:20 AM   #34
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Need help with heat and hot water issue


[quote=beenthere;409304]That is THE relay. the part where you attach the wires, is just a convenience terminal board.
The wire clip is there to prevent the relay from coming loose or falling out.

You said there is a aquastat on the pipe. is that set for the same temp as the boilers aquastat?

Is it possible the boiler has always operated this way, and you just never took notice before?
Its common for a boiler to have its burner shut off before the room/zone reaches temp. The circulator keeps running and keeps the rad/baseboards/radiant loop fed with hot water. And when the boiler cools down again, The burner restarts.


The aquastat on the pipe was at 165F but I set it to 180 which is the same as the low on the boilers aquastat.

It is possible that it operated like this before. The house seems to be pretty warm now. But I'm still wondering if the boiler is suppose to reach 180 when the thermostat is turned up. I turned each thermostat one by one up to like 30C but the indicator doesn't seem to reach the 30C mark before the boiler shuts off. I forgot to mention the thermostats are the mechanical kind with the mercury bulb.

The boiler seems to only be at around 140F until the indirect calls which then heats the boiler to 190F. Is it suppose to reach at least 180 when there's a call for heat? Also the themometer attached to one of the pipes in the pics below used to read at least 180F. Now it doesn't even come close. The highest I've seen it go after I changed the circ is 150F.
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Old 03-05-2010, 02:25 AM   #35
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I would expect the boiler to cycle on and off several times before the room temp is met with the thermostat set to 30C(86F).

Does the indirects aquastat connect to the same control as the heating zones. or do the heating zones go to another device first.


Post the model number of the aquastat that it mounted on the pipe.
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Old 03-05-2010, 02:46 AM   #36
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Just curious Spydey...on the recirculating pump...did you buy one compatible with your system? The one you put in looks like a Grundfos or B&G designed for minimal head pressure and lift. You did say your house is approx. 3,000 sq. ft. with 4 zone controls?
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Old 03-05-2010, 06:08 AM   #37
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I would expect the boiler to cycle on and off several times before the room temp is met with the thermostat set to 30C(86F).

Does the indirects aquastat connect to the same control as the heating zones. or do the heating zones go to another device first.


Post the model number of the aquastat that it mounted on the pipe.

I see, I didn't let it cycle a few times. Once the boiler shuts off I just assumed it wouldn't reach the 30C mark.

As for the indirects aquastat, it looks like it ties into the same relay BUT theres another zone valve on the boiler in pipe that goes to the indirect. Theres only 4 thermostats in the house so I'm not really sure what that fifth zone valve is for. Maybe it closes the indirect when heat calls?

The aquastat is a Honeywell. It says L6006A on the inside of the front cover but on top of the aquastat it says L4006A 1868 so I don't know which is the right model number.
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Old 03-05-2010, 06:14 AM   #38
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Just curious Spydey...on the recirculating pump...did you buy one compatible with your system? The one you put in looks like a Grundfos or B&G designed for minimal head pressure and lift. You did say your house is approx. 3,000 sq. ft. with 4 zone controls?
Yah I'm pretty sure it's compatible because it fit right in. The old one that was on there before was a B&G and the new one I got is a Grundfos. The Grundfos is the same specs as the B&G. I didn't have hot water before the change and now the hot water is fine so I don't think the circ is the issue here but thanks for asking.
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Old 03-05-2010, 06:19 AM   #39
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The number on the aquastat itself will be the correct number.

I don't recognize the last 4 numbers. So I can't tell you its range or differential setting. But its probably just being used as a second operating limit. To limit the temp of the water to the heating zones. If its installed that it doesn't sense water that feed the indirect.

The 5th zone valve would be for the indirect most likely. So it doesn't over heat the water, nor have its water cooled down when a heat zone calls, and the boiler temp is not up.
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Old 03-05-2010, 06:22 AM   #40
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Can you post the model number of your old and your new circulator.

Small differences can make a big impact.
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Old 03-05-2010, 09:52 PM   #41
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Can you post the model number of your old and your new circulator.

Small differences can make a big impact.

Old circulator: B&G NRF-22 1/25hp
New circulator: Grundfos UPS15-58 FC
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Old 03-06-2010, 03:36 AM   #42
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The NRF22 moves 5 GPM at 12' of head.

The Grundfos UPS15-58FC moves 1.75GPM set to speed 1 at 12' of head, set to speed 2, 4.2GPM, and at speed 3, 7 GPM.

So depending on what speed you have it set to. You are moving slightly less water, or a fair amount more water.

Moving more water will tend to make boiler temp gauges show a slightly lower water temp.

Your indirect's foot of head may be high enough to restrict the Grundfos that you see the boiler temp rise like you use to.

Measure your temp difference between the return and the supply at the boiler.
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Old 03-06-2010, 03:14 PM   #43
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The NRF22 moves 5 GPM at 12' of head.

The Grundfos UPS15-58FC moves 1.75GPM set to speed 1 at 12' of head, set to speed 2, 4.2GPM, and at speed 3, 7 GPM.

So depending on what speed you have it set to. You are moving slightly less water, or a fair amount more water.

Moving more water will tend to make boiler temp gauges show a slightly lower water temp.

Your indirect's foot of head may be high enough to restrict the Grundfos that you see the boiler temp rise like you use to.

Measure your temp difference between the return and the supply at the boiler.
I think it's set at speed 2. It doesn't have numeric markings, only says HI, MED, and Lo. It was set on MED when I bought it and I haven't touched the settings.

How do I measure the temp difference between the supply and return at the boiler?

I noticed that it would do sort of a short cycle. It would fire up for a minute then stop for a minute then fire and stay on for 4 to 5 minutes. It will does this several times then stop for awhile.
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Old 03-06-2010, 06:00 PM   #44
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The boiler seems like it's just firing up randomly. I was watching it for a bit today and this is what is was doing; it'll fire up to 190F and shut off, so it's not reaching the 200F hi limit. It will then fire up 5mins later when the temp falls just below 180F. It went below 180F in 5mins is that normal? It will fire for about a 1min and shut off. It then fired up again 5mins later. I checked the temp right when it fired up and it was just below 180F. The boiler shut off again 5mins later and the temp was at 190F. After it did that 2 times the boiler hasn't come again and it's been like 15-20mins already. The temp now is at just above 140F. Isn't the boiler suppose to fire when the temp goes below 180F. Thats the lo limit cut-off right? It should also reach 200F which is the high limit cut-off right? It only goes to 190F and shuts off.

I'm starting to get confused here now. The indirects aquastat is set at 140F, does that interfere with the boiler? But I'm thinking the boiler normal operating temp should be 180F and above right? Could it be that this the way the system operates. There is heat but the thermostats don't seem to reach the set temps when turned up.

Can you tell me how exactly how the boiler system with the indirect and radiant heating should operate?I

I'm almost ready to call a professional to come look at it.
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Old 03-06-2010, 07:39 PM   #45
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With radiant heat, there is virtually no reason to have the boiler set to 180 low and 200 high on the limits. Its a waste of fuel.

With a dual aquastat. The boiler temp is maintained by the low limit.

The short cycling you describe, could be a problem with the limit, or a loose connection it it, or else where. Or, the aquastat on the pipe could be cycling it.

Normal operation would be.

Standby temp maintained at low limit setting, varying only by the temp differential of the aquastat.
On a call for heat, burner runs until either the boiler temp reaches high limit setting or thermostat stops calling for heat. As long as there is a call for heat, the burner cycles on and off by the high limits 10 fixed differential.
Once the call for heat is satisfied, the boiler goes back to standby operation.


You said it doesn't reach set temp. Are you referring to 30C again? A radiant system may not be able to reach that temp except on the mildest of days.
And on normal cooling days, trying to reach it, even if it can do it, will takes many hours.

To check boiler temp rise, you can use a regular contact thermometer. Place insulation around the area your using to check temp, and insert thermometer in between insulation and pipe. repeat t opposite pipe.

On your system, the low limit should be no higher then 140.
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