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Spydey 02-22-2010 05:07 AM

Need help with heat and hot water issue
 
1 Attachment(s)
Hi everyone,

I'm new to this forum. How's everyone doing? Good I hope. First off, let me just say that I'm not a pro by any means on fixing heating systems. That said, I've been learning all about my system from research online for the past few days. Here's a quick description on my issue. There's only minimal heat and luke warm water throughout the house. Some areas seem like there's no heat at all. All the taps have luke warm water. The house is heated by radiant floor heating and the heating system setup is a slant/fin gas boiler with an indirect fired water heater. It's also controlled by 4 honeywell zone valves.

What I've done so far in diagnosing the problem:
Checked:Boiler fires, pipes are hot, circulator seems to be operating, hot to the touch, psi and temp on boiler all seem normal,Psi between 20-30 hot, temp 180-200
Checked thermostats opens zones, OK
zone valves, OK
Bled system

Can't seem to find what the problem is until I noticed one of the aquastats connected to the indirect fired water heater has a slight leak at the well. It doesn't seem to be a loose connection. It seems to be leaking from the well hole. Can that cause the aquastat to malfunction and not do its job? Could that be the source of the problem? The aquastat is a Honeywell L4006A single function.
At first I thought it was the circulator(B&G) that was the problem but now I'm not so sure. The boiler fires every once in awhile but there seems to be no hot water circulating or not enough circulating. The floor in one of the rooms upstairs seems to be slightly warm but other rooms seem to not be getting any heat and theres only luke warm water in all taps. Had to take a luke warm shower this morning...brrrbrrr. Lucky it's not that cold here in Vancouver and the Olympic spirit is keeping me a little warmer. Go CANADA Go!!!
Anyways some help from a pro would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!!!:thumbup:

Here's a pic of the leak on aquastat. Notice how it's corroding the bottom area.

beenthere 02-22-2010 02:54 PM

Its possible the well has corroded through. And needs replaced. The aquastat may now also be corroded that it can't call to heat the water up.
However, this should have no effect on your heat. Unless the indirect is being used as a buffer tank.

Is the indirect also on the zone panel? If so, it could be that the zone panel is having a problem.

Spydey 02-22-2010 03:13 PM

Thanks for the reply beenthere. What do you mean by zone panel? There is slight heat in some areas but the water is not getting hot. Do you think there's a leak in the radiant floor piping?

beenthere 02-22-2010 03:42 PM

You said you have 4 zones. So either you have a zone panel that the zone valves connect to. Or teh zone valves have end switches. that all tie into a control on the boiler.

So if they connect to a control on the boiler, it could be that control. If they connect to a panel before the boiler control, that would be the zone panel.

Spydey 02-22-2010 04:40 PM

It connects to an end switch but I don't think thats the problem. I think I just figured it out. It's the circulator pump. It mde some noise a few days ago and now just this morning the noise is louder and continuous. For some reason I have hot water now. Not as hot as it should be be there is hot water. I turned the boiler off for now and theres still hot water in the taps. So I'm sure its the circulator pump. Its a bell and gossett one piece so I don't think I can service the internal parts. I'm about to head out to go grab one now. Thanks for your help beenthere. I also think I need to replace the leaky aquastat well too.

NHMaster 02-22-2010 04:44 PM

jumper across the aquastat wires and see if the circ runs

Spydey 02-23-2010 03:35 AM

Ok, I finished changing the circulator and aquastat well. There's hot water now but the heating seems to be taking along time. I feel the floor getting warm but the home is not that warm yet. The thermostats are turned up to almost 30. I checked to see if all the zones are open and they are. It was weird because at first 2 zones seemed closed but as soon as I turned the thermostats up more the 2 zones opened. So now I'm wondering how long it takes for the radiant floor heating to heat the room to the stat temp? The indirect fired water heater had to be heated from cold after I drained most of the water out to change the aquastat well. It's a 60 gallon tank so I'm thinking 3-4 hours to heat up to the high limit. I can hear some gurgling in the one of the pipes off the boiler but I think it should be fine since the hot water seems to be getting hotter.

beenthere 02-23-2010 05:20 AM

Slab floors can take hours to reheat.
In some older larger homes. It can take 2 days to reheat the floors.

You didn't have to drain the indirect to change that aquastat or its well. Too late now though.
Air in the radiant loops will slow down the heat also.

Spydey 02-23-2010 05:59 AM

Thanks so much for the replies beenthere. You said I didn't have to drain the indirect to change the aquastat but the aquastat is screwed into the indirect. So water won't come spurting out if I change it without draining? If so, thats good to hear b/c I might have to remove it again b/c the well I got doesn't have a bracket that screws onto the aquastat like the original one. So I just kind of slipped the aquastat bulb into the well and it just kinda stays in position and not secured properly. Also I notice the bulb is discoloured and blackish. Would that be ok still? Or should I replace the aquastat.
I'm still scratching my head a bit though. I had all the thermostats turned up to close to 30 degrees celsius and the boiler kept running for like 4 hours straight and the temperature on the boiler seems very slow to reach temp to shut it off. So I just turned the thermostats down to about just over 25 celsius and the boiler went off about a few minutes later but the house doesn't seem to be that warm.The temp reads 150ish F. The water in the taps are getting hot though but not quite there yet. Maybe you're right that it takes along time to heat. Plus I drained the 60 gallon indirect almost completely and refilled with cold water. The house is fairly large about 3000 sq ft and its about 15-20 years old so not that old.
I'm still a bit confused b/c if the boiler stops when the thermostats in diff rooms are turned down then how is the radiant floor being heated to the room temp if it takes hours to days even?
Let me explain in more detail about the set up. The indirect has an aquastat thats set to 140, I'm guessing this is the low limit. Then on one of the boiler pipes is another aquastat set at 160, high limit I guess. The boiler it self has a mutifunction aquastat which has a high and low limit set. One of the other boiler pipes going out of the boiler has a thermometer attached to it and thats the one that seems to being moving slow. I don't think theres anything wrong with it b/c it reads the same temp as the tridicator on the boiler itself.

beenthere 02-23-2010 06:21 AM

On the well changing for the indirect. You shut off the water supply. Connect a drain hose to the drain. Open the drain valve. When the water stops running. QUICKLY unscrew the well and insert and screw in the new well(have new well prepped before you begin procedure).
When you unscrew the well. The hole will draw air in so water can come out the drain. Very little if any water will come out the well port, if your quick.


The aquastat in the indirect is its operating aquastat, not a low limit.

The other aquastat on the pipe is probably a second high limit, that is code required.

The boilers main aquastat may be a dual or triple aquastat.
As long as either the indirect or one of the thermostats are calling of r heat. The boiler should run up to the setting of the aquastat on the boiler.

60 gallons of cold water should only take 40,000 to 50,000BTUs to heat up to 140, depending how cold the water was to start with.

Your walls and furnishings are not up to temp yet. So they are taking heat from your body and making it feel cooler then normal. may take several hours to get back to normal.

Spydey 02-23-2010 03:46 PM

Thanks for the tip on changing the aquastat beenthere.

Ok the house has hot water now but the boiler temp doesn't seem to be reaching the limit. So the heat doesn't seem to be reaching thermostat temps. Also the thermometer on one of the pipes doesn't reach temp also. Before I changed the circulator the boiler would fire and reach temp, 180-200F. Now the boiler stops and the temp on the tridicator reads 15psi and 140F. The thermometer on the pipe reads 130F. Thermostats are just below 25 celsius. Have hot water but heat doesn't seem to be reaching to temp. The aquastat on the indirect is at 145 is that right? The other aquastat I mentioned is at 165 is that right also?

Possible air trap in system? i didn't bleed it after I replaced the pump and I heard quite a bit of gurgling in one on the pipes. I'll flush the system again and see.

beenthere 02-23-2010 06:00 PM

Not bleeding can cause the loops not to heat.
but, the boiler would still go to temp.
Its possible you have a loose wire at the aquastat.

145 for an indirect is fine. The 165 on the aquastat on the pipe, would prevent the boiler from reaching 180, if its mounted between the boiler and tempering valve.

Post pics.

Spydey 02-23-2010 06:46 PM

6 Attachment(s)
What I notice now is the boiler keeps cycling on and off. It'll cycle on for a few minute and cycle off for a few minutes but the temp doesn't reach the limit point. Here's some pics of the setup in the house.

Thurman 02-23-2010 07:08 PM

"Spydey"--I know nothing about you heating problem, we don't use boiler set-ups here.
Allow me to say that I pull for the U. S. athletes 100%, in all events--but one now.
I'm going to be watching and cheering on your Canadian young lady figure skater as she performs--for her Mother above all.
For those of you who may not have heard: This young lady's Mom and Dad arrived in Vancouver Saturday to watch their daughter compete in the Olympics. Her Mom had a massive heart attack early Sunday A.M. and passed away.
I doubt there will be a dry eye when she skates tonight.
Thanks, David

Spydey 02-23-2010 07:22 PM

[quote=Thurman;404942]"Spydey"--I know nothing about you heating problem, we don't use boiler set-ups here.
Allow me to say that I pull for the U. S. athletes 100%, in all events--but one now.
I'm going to be watching and cheering on your Canadian young lady figure skater as she performs--for her Mother above all.
For those of you who may not have heard: This young lady's Mom and Dad arrived in Vancouver Saturday to watch their daughter compete in the Olympics. Her Mom had a massive heart attack early Sunday A.M. and passed away.
I doubt there will be a dry eye when she skates tonight.
Thanks, David
[/quot

I'm sure Joannie Rochette,her mother(R.I.P)and all Canadians,I myself included, will really appreciate all the support and condolences from people of all nationalities. On behalf of all Canadians,I personally thank you David for your kindness and support. GO CANADA GO!!!:thumbup:


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