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Old 01-23-2014, 10:24 AM   #16
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Natural gas furnace combustion air intake question.


You have a problem if the tube outside froze and it should not be exposed to the outside then. That can burn out the pump. It should be pumped to a laundry sink or standpipe from the washing machine or inside to a floor drain or other spot. You can also get a Y adaptor and tee it into a plumbing drain and pump it there as a last resort.

Post a link to that install manual as I would like to see how they recommend the condensate trap be installed and drained. Ideally the pipe should enter the pump and not go below the water level. With Lennox that is not a problem but maybe Nordyne has it. There should be an open tee fitting on the drain pipe after it goes into the trap to let it siphon better. Post some pics of your pump and the side of the furnace with the drain.

Sounds like your pressure switch problem is related to water not draining from the furnace fast enough not the venting. As it gets colder it produces more water. The furnace should be sloped from the back to the front 1/2" inch also to drain better.

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Last edited by yuri; 01-23-2014 at 10:27 AM.
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Old 01-23-2014, 12:30 PM   #17
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Natural gas furnace combustion air intake question.


Yuri, somehow I accidentally bypassed the secure distributor login at the Nordyne site the other night and downloaded the file. I can't seem to do it again, and I don't have web hosting capabilities to upload a pdf file for linking. It is an 8.4 mb file, so it exceeds the limits for an attachment here.

I could email it to you if you really want it. Just let me know.

ps: If *you* can log in to the distributor site, the file is called 709367A.pdf

Last edited by NancyNGA; 01-23-2014 at 12:32 PM. Reason: ps
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Old 01-23-2014, 12:48 PM   #18
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Natural gas furnace combustion air intake question.


plummen, I like your plan! Removing the vent pipe is beyond my capabilities. I'd be afraid I'd ruin it somehow in the process.

And I think I have enough new information now to call the installer. If I have a list of specific things to check I actually think he will be happy. I believe he really wants to solve the problem, he's just stumped.

Since the problem *only* occurs on the very first start up in the morning and only when it's cold, I think it's either an equipment sensitivity issue. Like a pressure switch that is more sensitive when it's cold, or an inducer fan that has lower power when the parts are cold. Also possibly a condensate drainage problem, or blocked vent. I'm going out to check the vent now.
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Old 01-23-2014, 02:57 PM   #19
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Natural gas furnace combustion air intake question.


post a pic of the furnace and drain line and I can tell if there may be a simple change to the drain pipe that can help.
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Old 01-23-2014, 03:45 PM   #20
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Natural gas furnace combustion air intake question.


Vent pipe is clear according to shop vac and fish tape probing.

Side view:


Different angle


Pump close up:


Insides:
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Old 01-23-2014, 04:27 PM   #21
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Natural gas furnace combustion air intake question.


To the left of the bottom mounting bolt of the inducer. is there a plastic/rubber cap on a port. If so, that port probably needs to be connected to drain the water from the inducer.
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Old 01-23-2014, 04:28 PM   #22
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Natural gas furnace combustion air intake question.


This is what I recommend. Get the installer or you can do it your self. That clear hose where it leaves the furnace and goes into the pump you need to cut it and put a T fitting in to allow it to siphon better and make sure it does not go below the water level in the pump. I had problems with Ducanes and AireFlos that did the same as yours. Look at the Tee in this picture to get an idea. You can buy that hose at HDepot and plastic barbed fittings and tees.
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Old 01-23-2014, 06:58 PM   #23
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Natural gas furnace combustion air intake question.


Beenthere, (or anyone) do you mean this little port at the bottom, with the black plastic cover should be connected to a drain hose!?!

Holy Toledo! That would all make sense, even the couple of cases that didn't quite fit.

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Old 01-23-2014, 10:15 PM   #24
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Natural gas furnace combustion air intake question.


If there was water in the inducer it would make a LOUD sloooshing/splashing water noise when it starts up. I have seen those ports before and they are left unused. Sometimes they are for when the furnace is used horizontally. If a hose was to be put on there it would tell you that in the install manual. I have used them in special cases but then you have to drill thru the cabinet and put a trap on the hose or fumes can come out or the inducer loses suction.
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Old 01-24-2014, 03:52 AM   #25
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Natural gas furnace combustion air intake question.


Quote:
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If there was water in the inducer it would make a LOUD sloooshing/splashing water noise when it starts up. I have seen those ports before and they are left unused. Sometimes they are for when the furnace is used horizontally. If a hose was to be put on there it would tell you that in the install manual. I have used them in special cases but then you have to drill thru the cabinet and put a trap on the hose or fumes can come out or the inducer loses suction.
In the Nordyne install manual it tells you to connect that drain. That inducer has drain pots on its sides also. They don't connect them at the factory, because its a multi position furnace.
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Old 01-24-2014, 03:53 AM   #26
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Natural gas furnace combustion air intake question.


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Originally Posted by NancyNGA View Post
Beenthere, (or anyone) do you mean this little port at the bottom, with the black plastic cover should be connected to a drain hose!?!

Holy Toledo! That would all make sense, even the couple of cases that didn't quite fit.


Yep, that one.
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Old 01-24-2014, 10:09 AM   #27
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Natural gas furnace combustion air intake question.


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In the Nordyne install manual it tells you to connect that drain. That inducer has drain pots on its sides also. They don't connect them at the factory, because its a multi position furnace.
Too bad people don't read instructions.
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Old 01-24-2014, 12:08 PM   #28
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Natural gas furnace combustion air intake question.


Furnace failed again this morning, same lights blinking. Pulled that black cap off the port on inducer assembly almost hoping water would pour out. It was damp around the edges but nothing came out. Motor was hot, but not too hot to keep your hand on. Never have heard any sloshing.

Not to start an argument, but can't see any diagram in the manual that has a drain tube attached to the bottom of the inducer assembly or any mention of it. But it may be a poor manual because I can't see where it even mentions how to set up the PVC drain assembly coming from the top (heat exchanger?) of the furnace.

According to the manual the finish flange (louvered cover) over the inlet was in upside down. I flipped it over with the correct orientation without a gasket for now. That may be just enough change to solve the problem, because if you remember, removing the flange completely did, but it seems there is still something not quite right or it would fail in both cold and hot temps, or not at all. Probably the problem won't occur again until parts start to wear.



Yuri, I do understand that T in your pictures, but I'd rather the installer do it. Sent him an email (he has the flu), so we won't get to try anything probably until next week. But I will tell him about all these things, including the T venting.

Thank you all for your suggestions. I sure learned a lot.
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Old 01-24-2014, 12:17 PM   #29
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Natural gas furnace combustion air intake question.


It's very possible you have a "tight" basement meaning the furnace isn't getting enough oxygen for the combustion process with the door on. Consider running a dedicated air intake pipe from the outside to fix this. I've seen it a hundred times at least and would bet a ton of money on it. Do you have block Windows in your basement?
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Old 01-24-2014, 12:52 PM   #30
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Natural gas furnace combustion air intake question.


Gene, thank you for your suggestion. Yes, I would have preferred a 2 pipe system. This is a 100 year old house with 10 inch thick uneven granite stone walls in the basement. They are almost impenetrable. Luckily we found a hole big enough for the exhaust vent just below one sill. I prefer not to drill through the sills. But if it comes down to it, that 2 pipe venting is the only solution, I will get it done one way or the other.

I will take you on, on that bet. The basement is definitely not tight. One end extends under the porch floor. The windows are single pane aluminum. There are large cracks around all the doors and windows that you can see daylight through.

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