Misc DIY questions

jerryk1234 · 08-12-2011, 10:44 PM

Hello,

Just a few pseudo-random questions:

* On the system with the chopped-out condenser: what steps should I take to ensure a clean system? I envision just blowing it out with nitrogen. Will the TXV impede this? Should I shoot some kind of solvent through it ( I know there are kits ) to purge any remaining compressor oil? The new condenser will come with its own oil, right?

* Is "Sil-Fos 15" appropriate for all the brazed connections? The big HVAC book suggests that on the suction side, the high temperatures may kill the temper of the tubing. Unless it's already annealed, in which case it doesn't matter.... Or does it?

* I see that one can buy mounting pads for the condensers, and also flexible stainless steel hoses to isolate their vibrations. Would such be a good investment in peace and quiet? Or are new condensers with scroll compressors plenty quiet anyway?

- JerryK

biggles · 08-13-2011, 07:39 AM

don't flush it with nothing but nitro...

the oil from the old system is just wet on the inside of the pipes thru out and the TXV has an equalizer to pass the nitro but with the unit in change out mode the valve will probably will be open to pass it...brazing cool just be clean on the connection with a little flux back the torch away to control the heat...and the cork/rubber waffles or mint for a pad and yes the scrolls are supper quiet...

Marty S. · 08-13-2011, 07:59 AM

Cut the copper back a few feet to eliminate any dirt contamination. Blowing it out with nitrogen is fine. The heat required for silfos does take the temper out of the copper at the joint but it's still able to withstand pressures like 80 times what your AC will ever produce. It's a non-issue. I've never seen flex hoses needed on a residential AC so doubt you need them. Keep the line set from touching wood to control vibration transfer.

yuri · 08-13-2011, 08:45 AM

If you want to REALLY protect your new system from any contaminants or who knows what got in there while it sat open for a long time you may want to install a suction line filter drier. NOT cheap. may cost you $100 as a non contractor but I think it is worth it. Depending on which brand and model of condensors you buy they may have a small internal liquid line filter drier but some require you to add one yourself external to the condensor. Need to look inside it for a small copper bulb/drier on the liquid line or they may or may not include it in a loose box with the condensor. You now need to be quite skilled to quickly weld with it wrapped in a wet rag so it does not burn inside. Also need to wrap the service valves with a wet rag and remove the cores with a core remover. You are going to need a set of refrig gauges and a vacuum pump with clean oil and a micron gauge so the project starts to get more complex. Feeling up to it?

http://www.emersonclimate.com/en-US/...er_driers.aspx

jerryk1234 · 08-13-2011, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yuri

If you want to REALLY protect your new system from any contaminants or who knows what got in there while it sat open for a long time you may want to install a suction line filter drier. NOT cheap. may cost you $100 as a non contractor but I think it is worth it.

*** $47.99 plus shipping from alpinehomeair. Definitely. Given that this is on the low side, how about soldering it with plumbing solder? That would minimize the heat involved.

Quote:

Originally Posted by yuri

Depending on which brand and model of condensors you buy they may have a small internal liquid line filter drier

*** Goodman GSC130301-DRY for the upstairs system ( that still has a furnace ).

*** So I take it you recommend a suction line filter even if the mfgr included one in the liquid line? This one does, according to the poop sheet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by yuri

Need to look inside it for a small copper bulb/drier on the liquid line or they may or may not include it in a loose box with the condensor. You now need to be quite skilled to quickly weld with it wrapped in a wet rag so it does not burn inside. Also need to wrap the service valves with a wet rag and remove the cores with a core remover.

*** No biggie. I was impressed by how *easy* the brazing process is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by yuri

You are going to need a set of refrig gauges

*** Already have two charging manifolds. One with dials calibrated for R22, the other one that I use for R134A conversions on old cars. There's a guy on the local craigslist advertising a Mastercool digital manifold, complete with micron gauge. I've been blasting him with emails. He has not answered any of them

.

Quote:

Originally Posted by yuri

and a vacuum pump with clean oil

*** Just received two brand new quarts of oil for my Robinair 15600.
two-stage, 6 CFM.

Quote:

Originally Posted by yuri

and a micron gauge so the project starts to get more complex.

*** See my post from earlier this morning "Test Equipment on a shoestring". Gotta get a micron gauge. Otherwise, I won't know if I successfully evacuated the system.

Feeling up to it?

*** Yup.

- JerryK

http://www.emersonclimate.com/en-US/...er_driers.aspx[/quote]

yuri · 08-13-2011, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jerryk1234

*** $47.99 plus shipping from alpinehomeair. Definitely. Given that this is on the low side, how about soldering it with plumbing solder? That would minimize the heat involved.
I should start charging $$ for my advice. LOL. Actually there is a solder called Stay_Brite which uses a flux and requires considerable skill but it is low temp and can be used where there is minimal vibration and on the low side. I absolutely love it as I don't have to drag a big torch out but it is a one shot deal and if you don't clean the joint 1000% perfectly and flux it and not overheat it it works great. Usually a turbotorch on a Mapp gas hand held cylinder or your little Meco is all that would be needed. Still need to use a wet rag on the driers and service valves. I have used it on all joints high and low pressure EXCEPT the discharge line from the compressor which is VERY hot and vibrates but I am HIGHLY skilled with welding. ONLY works on PERFECTLY clean joints with NO oil residue or freon vapors and that is why we don't use it on repairs as sometimes you get oil burning/vapors and silfoss can tolerate that. If you purge it for a minute or 2/give it a GOOD 150 psi blast B4 welding and purge it while welding you should not get any burning or vapors but you being a newbie to this stuff I don't want to be indirectly responsible for any future problems or angst. LOL.

*** Goodman GSC130301-DRY for the upstairs system ( that still has a furnace ).

*** So I take it you recommend a suction line filter even if the mfgr included one in the liquid line? This one does, according to the poop sheet.

Yep, you may have several yrs of moisture buildup or corrosion or even acid buildup in those lines from being exposed to the atmosphere for that long

*** No biggie. I was impressed by how *easy* the brazing process is.

FAMOUS LAST WORDS!!!

*** Already have two charging manifolds. One with dials calibrated for R22, the other one that I use for R134A conversions on old cars. There's a guy on the local craigslist advertising a Mastercool digital manifold, complete with micron gauge. I've been blasting him with emails. He has not answered any of them

.

*** Just received two brand new quarts of oil for my Robinair 15600.
two-stage, 6 CFM.

*** See my post from earlier this morning "Test Equipment on a shoestring". Gotta get a micron gauge. Otherwise, I won't know if I successfully evacuated the system.

Feeling up to it?

*** Yup.

- JerryK

http://www.emersonclimate.com/en-US/...er_driers.aspx

[/quote]

......

am not sure what the difference between the 8 and regular one is and would have to talk to my wholesaler if I was to use it. maybe the other guys know. whichever is more expensive is the better one and stronger.click on stay brite 8 and go to their resources link and then Guide for some good useful info,

http://www.harrisproductsgroup.com/e...tay-Brite.aspx

http://www.harrisproductsgroup.com/e...y-Brite-8.aspx

http://www.harrisproductsgroup.com/e...Brite-Kit.aspx

**beenthere** · 08-13-2011, 11:55 AM

......

am not sure what the difference between the 8 and regular one is and would have to talk to my wholesaler if I was to use it. maybe the other guys know. whichever is more expensive is the better one and stronger.click on stay brite 8 and go to their resources link and then Guide for some good useful info,

http://www.harrisproductsgroup.com/e...tay-Brite.aspx

http://www.harrisproductsgroup.com/e...y-Brite-8.aspx

http://www.harrisproductsgroup.com/e...Brite-Kit.aspx[/quote]

The slightly higher amount of silver in stay brite 8 causes it to have a higher melting temp, which allows better bonding. Its just a change in tin and silver make up.

jerryk1234 · 08-13-2011, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beenthere

......

The slightly higher amount of silver in stay brite 8 causes it to have a higher melting temp, which allows better bonding. Its just a change in tin and silver make up.

*** 6% versus 4%. But it also makes a difference in the flow. The 4% stuff is eutectic. That is, it is either solid or liquid, with no plastic inbetween. The "8" version has a plastic range from 430F to 535F.

- JerryK

**beenthere** · 08-13-2011, 12:16 PM

What you call plastic. Is I believe called fluidous. Not a solid, and not a liquid.

yuri · 08-13-2011, 12:27 PM

Thats what I get when I drink TOO much beer and eat chili

Master of Cold · 08-13-2011, 12:54 PM

Stop using big words..it hurts!

yuri · 08-13-2011, 01:02 PM

elasticity, plasticity, fluididity, co-efficient of performance, need a Tylenol now?

Master of Cold · 08-13-2011, 01:16 PM

Your unscroupulous malificient indifference towards my socio-economic predispositional conditioning can no longer be deemed justifiable by any disproportionate standards. I will recommend your dispatching, post haste.

jerryk1234 · 08-13-2011, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master of Cold

Your unscroupulous malificient indifference towards my socio-economic predispositional conditioning can no longer be deemed justifiable by any disproportionate standards. I will recommend your dispatching, post haste.

*** And supercalafragilisdeexpialidocious to you too!

- JerryK

yuri · 08-13-2011, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master of Cold

Your unscroupulous malificient indifference towards my socio-economic predispositional conditioning can no longer be deemed justifiable by any disproportionate standards. I will recommend your dispatching, post haste.

Now are we talkin Cavemen or Bubba?

08-12-2011, 10:44 PM	#1
jerryk1234 Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 148	Misc DIY questions Hello, Just a few pseudo-random questions: * On the system with the chopped-out condenser: what steps should I take to ensure a clean system? I envision just blowing it out with nitrogen. Will the TXV impede this? Should I shoot some kind of solvent through it ( I know there are kits ) to purge any remaining compressor oil? The new condenser will come with its own oil, right? * Is "Sil-Fos 15" appropriate for all the brazed connections? The big HVAC book suggests that on the suction side, the high temperatures may kill the temper of the tubing. Unless it's already annealed, in which case it doesn't matter.... Or does it? * I see that one can buy mounting pads for the condensers, and also flexible stainless steel hoses to isolate their vibrations. Would such be a good investment in peace and quiet? Or are new condensers with scroll compressors plenty quiet anyway? - JerryK

08-13-2011, 07:39 AM	#2
biggles Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Long Island Posts: 3,250	Misc DIY questions don't flush it with nothing but nitro... the oil from the old system is just wet on the inside of the pipes thru out and the TXV has an equalizer to pass the nitro but with the unit in change out mode the valve will probably will be open to pass it...brazing cool just be clean on the connection with a little flux back the torch away to control the heat...and the cork/rubber waffles or mint for a pad and yes the scrolls are supper quiet...

08-13-2011, 07:59 AM	#3
Marty S. Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Nebraska Posts: 2,311	Misc DIY questions Cut the copper back a few feet to eliminate any dirt contamination. Blowing it out with nitrogen is fine. The heat required for silfos does take the temper out of the copper at the joint but it's still able to withstand pressures like 80 times what your AC will ever produce. It's a non-issue. I've never seen flex hoses needed on a residential AC so doubt you need them. Keep the line set from touching wood to control vibration transfer.

08-13-2011, 08:45 AM	#4
yuri Hvac Pro Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Winnipeg, Canada Posts: 6,737	Misc DIY questions If you want to REALLY protect your new system from any contaminants or who knows what got in there while it sat open for a long time you may want to install a suction line filter drier. NOT cheap. may cost you $100 as a non contractor but I think it is worth it. Depending on which brand and model of condensors you buy they may have a small internal liquid line filter drier but some require you to add one yourself external to the condensor. Need to look inside it for a small copper bulb/drier on the liquid line or they may or may not include it in a loose box with the condensor. You now need to be quite skilled to quickly weld with it wrapped in a wet rag so it does not burn inside. Also need to wrap the service valves with a wet rag and remove the cores with a core remover. You are going to need a set of refrig gauges and a vacuum pump with clean oil and a micron gauge so the project starts to get more complex. Feeling up to it? http://www.emersonclimate.com/en-US/...er_driers.aspx __________________ "Cut it twice and it is still too short". To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Last edited by yuri; 08-13-2011 at 08:50 AM.

08-13-2011, 11:55 AM	#7
beenthere An old Tradesmen Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: PA Posts: 19,043	Misc DIY questions ...... am not sure what the difference between the 8 and regular one is and would have to talk to my wholesaler if I was to use it. maybe the other guys know. whichever is more expensive is the better one and stronger.click on stay brite 8 and go to their resources link and then Guide for some good useful info, http://www.harrisproductsgroup.com/e...tay-Brite.aspx http://www.harrisproductsgroup.com/e...y-Brite-8.aspx http://www.harrisproductsgroup.com/e...Brite-Kit.aspx[/quote] The slightly higher amount of silver in stay brite 8 causes it to have a higher melting temp, which allows better bonding. Its just a change in tin and silver make up.

Misc DIY questions