Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > HVAC

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 12-17-2010, 04:51 PM   #1
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: GA
Posts: 163
Share |
Default

Manual D Friction Rate Worksheet


Hey guys

I bought the Manual D book so I can redo all my ductworks in my home. I read alot of stuff in the Manual D and some I understood and some just went over my head. I finally figured out I need to first find the friction rate before I can properly size the trucklines. I have a few questions about the worksheet.

1. In the component pressure losses (CPL) some of the values are given in the manual D book in form of a chart. If I cant find the exact values of my current system should I use some of those values? Like example the Electric resistance heating coil,j I put .13 iwc cause on the chart figure 6-3 in the manual D book, it has 1200 cfm at .13 iwc . My blower on heating mode is set for 1200 cfm.

2. Should I have a value for the "Direct expansion refrigerant coil" in the component pressure losses (CPL)? I have A shaped coils. I dont know whats the IWC for them.The coils I got are ASPEN CE48D44-210-020 R410. Should I also use the default values set in Figure 4.2 in Manual D book.

3. I am planning to put 3 manual dampers. So when I put that into the CPL list I should put 0.03 x 3 =0.09 ? Again 0.03 is a value I got from manual D. I looked up the dampers online listing and it said it can withstand max pressure differential up to 1.0 WC.

4. When calculating the Total Effective length (TEL) it should be only the total trunklines lengths, correct? I dont include the plenum length? I am planning to use R-6 ductboards.

5. If you guys need to know my ESP for my air handler is '0.5 esp ,tested without filter installed, dry coil condition' thats what the manual for the air handler says . AIr handlers is a York MV16CN21H set at 4 ton 1600cfm.

Let me know if I am on the money! lol

kilosos2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2010, 05:55 PM   #2
An old Tradesmen
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: PA
Posts: 24,809
Default

Manual D Friction Rate Worksheet


Quote:
Originally Posted by kilosos2 View Post
Hey guys

I bought the Manual D book so I can redo all my ductworks in my home. I read alot of stuff in the Manual D and some I understood and some just went over my head. I finally figured out I need to first find the friction rate before I can properly size the trucklines. I have a few questions about the worksheet.

1. In the component pressure losses (CPL) some of the values are given in the manual D book in form of a chart. If I cant find the exact values of my current system should I use some of those values? Like example the Electric resistance heating coil,j I put .13 iwc cause on the chart figure 6-3 in the manual D book, it has 1200 cfm at .13 iwc . My blower on heating mode is set for 1200 cfm.

Your blower/air handler should have a listing for its heat kits PD at different CFMs. Use it. It won't be as high as you posted.



2. Should I have a value for the "Direct expansion refrigerant coil" in the component pressure losses (CPL)? I have A shaped coils. I dont know whats the IWC for them.The coils I got are ASPEN CE48D44-210-020 R410. Should I also use the default values set in Figure 4.2 in Manual D book.

Your coil will have a PD listing for it at different CFMs. use it. It may be higher then you think.

3. I am planning to put 3 manual dampers. So when I put that into the CPL list I should put 0.03 x 3 =0.09 ? Again 0.03 is a value I got from manual D. I looked up the dampers online listing and it said it can withstand max pressure differential up to 1.0 WC.

The dampers aren't acculmative unless they are in series.

4. When calculating the Total Effective length (TEL) it should be only the total trunklines lengths, correct? I dont include the plenum length? I am planning to use R-6 ductboards.

The plenum is not part of the TEL. But, the trunklines attachment to it will have a An equivalent length.

5. If you guys need to know my ESP for my air handler is '0.5 esp ,tested without filter installed, dry coil condition' thats what the manual for the air handler says . AIr handlers is a York MV16CN21H set at 4 ton 1600cfm.

Let me know if I am on the money! lol
It takes time to understand the manual. Take your time reading it. Ask what you need to. If I can help i will.

beenthere is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2010, 01:27 PM   #3
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: GA
Posts: 163
Default

Manual D Friction Rate Worksheet


In the manual all it says that " Airflow at nominal voltage , bottom return at 0.5 ESP, tested without filter installed, dry coil condition." It says this below the Airflow charts but the charts don't have a listing of static pressure at each cfm.

There is also a chart in the manual about the heater kits and it lists the max static pressure is .5.

Here's a link to my manual

http://www.luxaire.com/PDFFiles/255143-UIM-G-1208.pdf

page 10 Table 9 list the heater kit...I got a 10KW heater strip

and page 11 Table 15 list the different CFM settings, below the Table is some notes and Note #1 says about the .5 ESP.

So I dont know if I need to maybe contact York about the issue. I can also get a manometer as I have a fieldpiece hvac tool and it has a add-on manometer I can attach to check static pressure. If you think I can acquire the esp like that.
kilosos2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2010, 01:43 PM   #4
An old Tradesmen
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: PA
Posts: 24,809
Default

Manual D Friction Rate Worksheet


The foot notes say it will move set CFM up to an ESP of .6".
After that, the CFM is reduced byn 2% for each .1" above .6".

Contact Aspen for teh PS of your coil at what ever CFM your going to be using.

You need the manual for the strip heater kit. that should have the PD of it listed. Also, 10 KW for a 4 ton blower? Gonna have some cool feeling air coming from it. What size is the outdoor unit?

If you have the heat kit model number. I may have its PD at what ever CFMs.
beenthere is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2010, 01:58 PM   #5
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: GA
Posts: 163
Default

Manual D Friction Rate Worksheet


I have a 18 seer 2 stage York Affinity 8T system. Outside Unit is a Czh04811B and inside Air handler is A Mv16cn21H. A 4- ton unit. For heating I have the airflow set at 1248 cfm. The air that comes out isnt that hot but it does work.

I really dont know which heating kit is installed but I know its a 10 KW as the installers wrote on the Air handler "10 KW heat". And if its the original heating kit from York then based off the manual it should be the 4hk16501506. Let me see if I can open the air handler and see if I see any label or anything on the heating strips.
kilosos2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2010, 02:17 PM   #6
An old Tradesmen
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: PA
Posts: 24,809
Default

Manual D Friction Rate Worksheet


1248 is a bit low for that unit in heat mode.

I don't have that heater's data. but, it should only be a .03 to .07 PD.

10 KW at 1248 is only a 25 degree temp rise. So your defrost air temp is going to feel cool.

You shouldn't need to have the CFM that low to get a nice warm discharge air temp from that heat pump.
beenthere is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2010, 02:27 PM   #7
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: GA
Posts: 163
Default

Manual D Friction Rate Worksheet


Ok, I opened my unit and found the label for the heating strip.

It says "Warren Technology"
Integral Limit Control
Model: W4k1002B 9.60-10.00x5.50
240 Volt 1PH 2Step 60hz 40.00 amps
1009 9600 watts s/nXXXXXXX
Similar To: 4HK16501006A

Thats all the label says. 4HK16501006A is the yorks heating kit and in the manual it says its a 7.2 KW. Although this one is a 9.6kw . The Warren technology company has its address on the label. Its a local company in my area. I will see if I can contact them. You see anything there that we can use to extract the SP?

.. oh I found the heater online ... check out

http://www.theacoutlet.com/10KWYORKSTRIPHEAT.htm

Last edited by kilosos2; 12-18-2010 at 02:36 PM.
kilosos2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2010, 02:30 PM   #8
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: GA
Posts: 163
Default

Manual D Friction Rate Worksheet


Quote:
Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
1248 is a bit low for that unit in heat mode.

I don't have that heater's data. but, it should only be a .03 to .07 PD.

10 KW at 1248 is only a 25 degree temp rise. So your defrost air temp is going to feel cool.

You shouldn't need to have the CFM that low to get a nice warm discharge air temp from that heat pump.

I dont have a heat pump system! Its only electric heat strip. I am in miami , fl. I used it last week when it got down to the 30's . It works but it doesn't have a nice hot airflow like in my dad's house or other peoples homes I have visited. But it does work to raise the temp up. I think the cfm should be put at 1468 cfm( Tap C on the comfort trek control board) as one person told me on another forum.

Last edited by kilosos2; 12-18-2010 at 02:33 PM.
kilosos2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2010, 03:10 PM   #9
An old Tradesmen
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: PA
Posts: 24,809
Default

Manual D Friction Rate Worksheet


It doesn't list actual specs for it. but its no more then a .07" PD.

Since its only electric strip heat, you can drop it to 100 CFM and have a temp rise of 31 degrees. That heat kit is used in 1.5 ton units that only move 600 CFM, so no problem.
beenthere is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2010, 03:18 PM   #10
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: GA
Posts: 163
Default

Manual D Friction Rate Worksheet


Whoa your saying the 10kw is for a 1.5ton unit that uses 600 cfm? The lowest cfm setting I can use is 1248cfm. I guess I will leave it at that. I will call york and see if they can give me any PD values. I will also use the .07 pd for this electric strip.

Lol- Here goes my thread off topic. Beenthere as I was looking inside the air handler and looking at the control board terminals. I saw the W1 and W2 terminals bridged with a small piece of tstat wire. And then I have another wire that is connected to the W2 terminal on the control board and that wire hooks up to my IAQ EIM-W1 terminal. Is that correct or I should remove the bridge and it should be 2 separate wires going like

W1 from control board to W1 on IAQ EIM
W2 from control board to W2 on IAQ EIM

??

Last edited by kilosos2; 12-18-2010 at 03:29 PM.
kilosos2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2010, 03:22 PM   #11
An old Tradesmen
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: PA
Posts: 24,809
Default

Manual D Friction Rate Worksheet


Its seldom used in anything larger then a 2.5 ton.
beenthere is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to beenthere For This Useful Post:
kilosos2 (12-18-2010)
Old 12-18-2010, 03:39 PM   #12
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: GA
Posts: 163
Default

Manual D Friction Rate Worksheet


I dont know if you saw my edit of the post above about the terminals. Let me know what you think if that is correct or not.

Anyways thanks so much for your help. I'll keep you posted on my outcome!

Last edited by kilosos2; 12-18-2010 at 03:41 PM.
kilosos2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2010, 03:44 PM   #13
An old Tradesmen
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: PA
Posts: 24,809
Default

Manual D Friction Rate Worksheet


Your wiring is correct.
beenthere is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2010, 03:52 PM   #14
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: GA
Posts: 163
Default

Manual D Friction Rate Worksheet


Quote:
Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
Your wiring is correct.

Ok cool, I will leave it alone then. hehe
kilosos2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2010, 11:41 AM   #15
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: GA
Posts: 163
Default

Manual D Friction Rate Worksheet


Hey beenthere

Ok I got all the values down from ASPEN for the coil and Warran for the heating strip. I got a friction rate of 0.0384615.

( my ASP was ESP .5 - CPL .48 = 0.02)
(FR= 0.02 ASP x 100 / 52 TEL= 0.0384615)

I rounded it up to 0.04 . You think that sounds right?


Last edited by kilosos2; 12-20-2010 at 02:18 PM.
kilosos2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Manual transfer switch to power an existing sub-panel joestewart Electrical 10 11-23-2009 02:30 PM
Thermostat from Manual to Digital trinamillersmit HVAC 5 07-02-2009 09:21 AM
Drop Rate on Scott's Drop Spreader SPS-1 Landscaping & Lawn Care 1 04-28-2009 08:24 PM
Toro 7/24 Snowblower - friction wheel Ottawa Landscaping & Lawn Care 1 02-02-2009 08:01 AM
needing manual HandyMac Landscaping & Lawn Care 2 07-03-2008 02:26 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.