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Old 01-22-2012, 04:04 PM   #31
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Major pressurization issue


I recorded a 3 minute video of me walking around the basement looking at the furnace and all the ductwork. Hopefully it helps to put a better picture in your minds.

Thanks again for all your help everyone!


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Old 01-22-2012, 04:36 PM   #32
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Major pressurization issue


Your system is certainly not like anything I would do.If I were there I would probably tear everything down and start again.
Again sizing is most probably off on the supply side as well as the return side.
I assume you will be living here for the next 20 years.The way it is now you will not get anything recognized as comfort in this industry nor will you get the effiency that the equipment is built for.
I was not kidding when I said your next call should be to the lawyer that handeled the house sale,let him call a proper contractor.
You should have at the least a proper manuel "J" which will give you the proper size equipment for your particuliar house AND a manuel "D" which will give you a proper duct design and sizing.
From what I see and what you have posted there is real reason to take action now rather then later.
Good Luck.
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Old 01-22-2012, 04:55 PM   #33
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Major pressurization issue


Quote:
Originally Posted by stickner View Post
I recorded a 3 minute video of me walking around the basement looking at the furnace and all the ductwork. Hopefully it helps to put a better picture in your minds.

Thanks again for all your help everyone!

well......now i know what the problem is.......they forgot to intall a duct system..... You have a plenum with heat runs coming off the top.......that kills the over all SP, and makes the run that are off the top like a wind machine ( are you a nascar fan? you could invite your favorite. driver over for some free wind tunnel time) that was at 14 seconds and 131 seconds..... @ 42 seconds it shows a massive return to nowere.... also at 131 is shows 2 ducts running off what i am assuming is a supply to another room....not sure....but hey I give them a A= on insulating the "ductwork".
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Old 01-22-2012, 05:52 PM   #34
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Major pressurization issue


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Originally Posted by harleyrider View Post
@ 42 seconds it shows a massive return to nowere....
That's actually the return for the downstairs area that's not yet finished. I'm assuming were it draws from will actually be a hallway when completed.
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Old 01-22-2012, 05:58 PM   #35
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Major pressurization issue


Here is one of the documents the builder supplied us. In the post below, I will be the Abridged manual J.
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Major pressurization issue-letter01.jpg  
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Old 01-22-2012, 06:04 PM   #36
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Major pressurization issue


Here is the manual J. I had to split it up into several images for file size reasons. Interestingly, in number 12, it says the heated and cooled sq footage of our house is 1871 sq ft and we have 3 bedrooms.

The specs of our house are as follows:
  • 1st floor = 1871 sq feet with 1 bedroom
    • 1st floor has 9 foot ceilings
    • The Great room and foyer are vaulted and are 18 feet high
  • 2nd floor = 1264 sq feet with 3 beds and 1 bonus room
  • Basement = 1864 sq feet with 10 foot ceilings


Manual J:
Attached Thumbnails
Major pressurization issue-manj01.jpg   Major pressurization issue-manj02.jpg   Major pressurization issue-manj03.jpg   Major pressurization issue-manj04.jpg   Major pressurization issue-manj05.jpg  

Major pressurization issue-manj06.jpg  
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Old 01-22-2012, 06:43 PM   #37
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Major pressurization issue


A pdf would be better. Too bad they didn't do the duct design using Manual D.
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Old 01-22-2012, 07:14 PM   #38
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Major pressurization issue


14x25 roughly good return for a 2 ton. if it is a filter grill, it has to be even larger than a regular grill. I do not see what size the return air flex it, but I would take a look to verify its ability to carry the needed return air as well.
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Old 01-22-2012, 07:29 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
A pdf would be better. Too bad they didn't do the duct design using Manual D.
Unfortunately a pdf is 850K and it is bigger than the max file sizer I can upload on this forum.

I believe the manual for the furnace says you should install ductwork using manual D. I will look that up.
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Old 01-22-2012, 07:41 PM   #40
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If you e-mail me the PDF at Msradell@aol.com I can post it in the drop box account so others can view it.
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Old 01-22-2012, 07:58 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by REP View Post
Your system is certainly not like anything I would do.If I were there I would probably tear everything down and start again.
Again sizing is most probably off on the supply side as well as the return side.
I assume you will be living here for the next 20 years.The way it is now you will not get anything recognized as comfort in this industry nor will you get the effiency that the equipment is built for.
I was not kidding when I said your next call should be to the lawyer that handeled the house sale,let him call a proper contractor.
You should have at the least a proper manuel "J" which will give you the proper size equipment for your particuliar house AND a manuel "D" which will give you a proper duct design and sizing.
From what I see and what you have posted there is real reason to take action now rather then later.
Good Luck.
REP is right and myself and some of the other guys here have 20-30 yrs experience and have never seen a "system" like that. This is VERY serious. There is no zoning panel or provision to bypass the extra air pressure back into the return duct ( called a barometric bypass damper ) so it is going to whistle and be noisy as heck when that extra pressure/flow comes shooting out the open zone and that is very hard on the blower as it makes it work harder and can also blow the water off the ac coil. You also have no way to adjust any dampers downstairs to balance the system or make any adjustrments as you have none due to that type of piping. Doubt you will ever have any happiness with that system. I would want to check with other homes in your area to see if they did it that way as it may be a local method they use. To me it looks like a quick cheap fast easy way to install "ductwork" as no skilled tinsmith is needed as you have no ductwork. Any clown can pull flex duct and hang it. They did do a very nice job of insulating it. None of that job meets any standards or normal practices that we use elsewhere. The only time we see flex ducting is in attics because there is no way to hang ductwork easily and it flexes around beams etc.
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Old 01-22-2012, 08:20 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Msradell View Post
If you e-mail me the PDF at Msradell@aol.com I can post it in the drop box account so others can view it.
Thanks for the offer! I just sent you a JPG version with all the contractor and address info removed.
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Old 01-22-2012, 08:55 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by yuri View Post
REP is right and myself and some of the other guys here have 20-30 yrs experience and have never seen a "system" like that. This is VERY serious. There is no zoning panel or provision to bypass the extra air pressure back into the return duct ( called a barometric bypass damper ) so it is going to whistle and be noisy as heck when that extra pressure/flow comes shooting out the open zone and that is very hard on the blower as it makes it work harder and can also blow the water off the ac coil. You also have no way to adjust any dampers downstairs to balance the system or make any adjustrments as you have none due to that type of piping. Doubt you will ever have any happiness with that system. I would want to check with other homes in your area to see if they did it that way as it may be a local method they use. To me it looks like a quick cheap fast easy way to install "ductwork" as no skilled tinsmith is needed as you have no ductwork. Any clown can pull flex duct and hang it. They did do a very nice job of insulating it. None of that job meets any standards or normal practices that we use elsewhere. The only time we see flex ducting is in attics because there is no way to hang ductwork easily and it flexes around beams etc.
The stuff they use comes pre-insulated, so that is why it probably looks like a good job.

Being new to the area, I just wish I knew what local HVAC contractor I can turn to so we can get a quality and honest evaluation.

I spoke with an attorney this weekend (a friend in another state where we moved from). I plan to contact a local attorney tomorrow.

I wish they would have just done this job right. While I sincerely appreciate everyone's help, I hate that my family and I are having to deal with all of these issues.

And the HVAC system is only the tip of the iceberg. There are SO MANY more problems. I wish it was only HVAC. I could live with that.
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Old 01-22-2012, 09:31 PM   #44
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Major pressurization issue


I put the Manual J from the OP in my Dropbox account for anyone who wants to download it. The link is here: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24240081/ManualJ.JPG
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Old 01-23-2012, 05:13 AM   #45
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Post the model numbers of the equipment they installed.

Looks like they used 1% designed conditions so thy could install what size they ball parked.

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