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Old 02-17-2014, 10:13 AM   #31
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Loud noises from one zone of Hot water heating system


[/QUOTE] where is the circulator control located? it looks like it is wired directly to the "service" switch.[/QUOTE]

and no, that's just an effect of the angle of the picture. Circulator is wired in to the boiler unit and the control module inside.

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Old 02-17-2014, 10:14 AM   #32
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Loud noises from one zone of Hot water heating system


must be a relay located with burner, I can see where greenfield for power vent runs through boiler jacket
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Old 02-17-2014, 10:32 AM   #33
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Loud noises from one zone of Hot water heating system


Quote:
Originally Posted by dvaupel View Post
-finned baseboard units

-yes, a looped system. Basement zone is one loop, upstairs would perhaps be counted as 2 (the T junction as described in my previous post)

-I don't see any arrows on the circulator. it's pretty close to the boiler unit, so it it's on the back side, I can't get a good view.

=====
Another observation: When a zone valve opens and the circulator pump gets going, the water flows in the opposite direction of the arrows on the zone valve bodies. The arrows are pointing down towards the floor, but I can tell based on how the pipes heat up that the hot water is flowing up towards the ceiling. Not sure if it means anything, but I find it counterintuitive.
When circulator first comes on you should feel cold water at the zone valve, because the circulator is forcing the cold water out and replacing it with hot and eventually the water at the zones valves will become hot. If when the circulator first comes on you feel hot water at the valves, the either the circulator is going in the wrong direction or the valves have been installed upside down. If the valves are installed with the arrows pointing towards the boiler the circulator should be pushing the water away from the valves.
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Old 02-17-2014, 10:34 AM   #34
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Loud noises from one zone of Hot water heating system


have you tried looking up boiler model #etc on internet and see if there is a plumbing diagram? some times valve are put on the return side to help prevent " gravity" hot water circulation.

Last edited by hpyjack2013; 02-17-2014 at 10:37 AM.
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Old 02-17-2014, 10:45 AM   #35
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Loud noises from one zone of Hot water heating system


@hpyjack

For clarification, the circulator is on the other side of the boiler than the valves. I still don't know directionality (i'll try to get an imprint of the stuff I can't read with some play-doh later today)

**didn't see your other post. The boiler was installed a year ago and was fit in to the existing plumbing (mid-50's?). I'll see if I can find a plumbing diagram later today.

I think I'm still a bit confused about how it could be a circulator issue. Both zone valves are installed the same direction, so it seems like the noise would have to happen with either zone (but only happens when basement is active).

To all reading...

I did some more testing this morning. Had the basement zone manually opened, waited until the upstairs zone had run for awhile, then manually closed the basement valve. There was noticeable shaking of the basement zone pipe going away from the boiler. Could this all be a matter of my pipes aren't anchored to something, thus allowing shock waves to, at times, cause the loud banging noises?

Last edited by dvaupel; 02-17-2014 at 10:50 AM.
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Old 02-17-2014, 11:18 AM   #36
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Loud noises from one zone of Hot water heating system


Quote:
Originally Posted by dvaupel View Post
@hpyjack

For clarification, the circulator is on the other side of the boiler than the valves. I still don't know directionality (i'll try to get an imprint of the stuff I can't read with some play-doh later today)


To all reading...

I did some more testing this morning. Had the basement zone manually opened, waited until the upstairs zone had run for awhile, then manually closed the basement valve. There was noticeable shaking of the basement zone pipe going away from the boiler. Could this all be a matter of my pipes aren't anchored to something, thus allowing shock waves to, at times, cause the loud banging noises?
try using a mirror. I think the circulator should be forcing water through boiler and then out to heat units and then return back through valves or through valve the way it is piped now. Which means arrows are facing wrong way.
that could part of the problem, but valve shouldn't close enough so to cause hammer.
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Old 02-17-2014, 11:38 AM   #37
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Loud noises from one zone of Hot water heating system


Here's a pic of the back of the valves for clarity:



The arrow on the back of the circulator is in the direction that goes in to the boiler. The pipe leaving the boiler then goes to the zone valves. The arrows on both of the zone valves are also pointing back in the direction of the boiler, but as can be seen in the picture are also pointing to 'B'.

Sorry if I misunderstood the explanation, but since the loud noise only happens when the basement zone is active, I don't understand how it could be related to the circulator. If there's further explanation in that vein, please let me know.
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Old 02-17-2014, 12:01 PM   #38
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Loud noises from one zone of Hot water heating system


Are there any bleeders at the high point(s) of the basement loop zone?
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Old 02-17-2014, 12:21 PM   #39
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Loud noises from one zone of Hot water heating system


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Are there any bleeders at the high point(s) of the basement loop zone?
nope...
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Old 02-17-2014, 01:14 PM   #40
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Loud noises from one zone of Hot water heating system


Quote:
Originally Posted by dvaupel View Post
Here's a pic of the back of the valves for clarity:



The arrow on the back of the circulator is in the direction that goes in to the boiler. The pipe leaving the boiler then goes to the zone valves. The arrows on both of the zone valves are also pointing back in the direction of the boiler, but as can be seen in the picture are also pointing to 'B'.

Sorry if I misunderstood the explanation, but since the loud noise only happens when the basement zone is active, I don't understand how it could be related to the circulator. If there's further explanation in that vein, please let me know.
so what you're saying is the arrows are pointing at each other- the one from the circulator and the ones from the zone valves?
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Old 02-17-2014, 01:28 PM   #41
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Loud noises from one zone of Hot water heating system


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so what you're saying is the arrows are pointing at each other- the one from the circulator and the ones from the zone valves?
Yes, and water is flowing in the direction of the circulator arrow (circulator -> boiler -> zone valves)
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Old 02-17-2014, 02:10 PM   #42
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Loud noises from one zone of Hot water heating system


Well, I was taught that the arrows go or point in the direction of flow and I'm pretty sure the engineers designed them that way. The fact the one valve is older than the other, who knows I don't, maybe one's just weak enough that occasionally the right circumstances come together and you get a bang, the bang might be minimized if you take some of the play out of the pipes. If it were me, I'd change the valves and while I had it drained down install a feeder valve. that's all I got. I'll be honest with you, every time we saw one of those brand valves we'd replace it with a Taco Zone Valve. How big a house is this? those are awfully big feeds. I've been looking at the pictures and you have quite the potpourri of piping there. trying to figure out which zone is which and how and where they return to the boiler.

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Old 02-17-2014, 02:19 PM   #43
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Loud noises from one zone of Hot water heating system


House itself is 1000 sqft footprint single story rambler.

Take note that the valves themselves are the same age...it's the motors that are different ages with the older zone motor operating the basement. (sorry if that terminology is wrong)
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Old 02-17-2014, 02:22 PM   #44
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Loud noises from one zone of Hot water heating system


good luck!
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Old 02-17-2014, 02:27 PM   #45
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Loud noises from one zone of Hot water heating system


Quote:
Originally Posted by hpyjack2013 View Post
I've been looking at the pictures and you have quite the potpourri of piping there. trying to figure out which zone is which and how and where they return to the boiler.
Yeah, it's hard to capture it all in a few pictures. Looking at it in person, it all makes sense (but that's quite often the case...). Most of the piping runs along the ceiling, which is why I initially wondered if it was a matter of air trapped in the basement zone.

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