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Old 02-15-2014, 03:19 PM   #1
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Loud noises from one zone of Hot water heating system


Still relatively new to hot water radiant heat systems, so a question that's been puzzling me....

We're in a single story rambler with a dual zone heating system (upstairs and basement). Upstairs operates just fine, but the basement zone is quirky. When it's on, every once in awhile (1-2 times a day?), there will be a loud thud accompanied by rattling pipes.

I'm wondering if this is caused by air trapped in the pipes. In the basement zone, the only bleed valve is at the edge of one of the baseboard radiators, but the lines leading in and out of the boiler run along the ceiling. If there's any air trapped in the line still, it'd be in those runs along the ceiling and I have no idea how to get it out.

So 2 questions....

-Does it seem like this would be a matter of air trapped in the pipes? Or is it something else?
-If it is air in the pipes, how would you recommend getting it out since there's no bleeder valves along the ceiling runs?

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Old 02-15-2014, 05:35 PM   #2
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Loud noises from one zone of Hot water heating system


Quote:
So 2 questions....

-Does it seem like this would be a matter of air trapped in the pipes? Or is it something else?
-If it is air in the pipes, how would you recommend getting it out since there's no bleeder valves along the ceiling runs?
Ayuh,... Does that zone work,..??

Do the baseboards get Hot,..??

I'd probably cut, 'n sweat in a bleeder, wherever necessary to bleed it,...

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Old 02-15-2014, 05:44 PM   #3
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Loud noises from one zone of Hot water heating system


The zone does work, but we don't have it on all that often since the basement is mostly storage right now and the loud noises are somewhat distracting while sleeping.

I'm fine with sweating in a bleeder if that would help, but wanted to get input and see if air in the line would cause this...
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Old 02-15-2014, 06:37 PM   #4
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Loud noises from one zone of Hot water heating system


does that zone have a zone valve or just a circulator
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Old 02-15-2014, 06:39 PM   #5
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Loud noises from one zone of Hot water heating system


I'm not sure on the terminology, but there are 2 mechanisms right after the boiler, each connected to a thermostat....I think that means there's a specific zone valve. I don't see anything that looks like it would just circulate water.
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Old 02-15-2014, 07:08 PM   #6
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Loud noises from one zone of Hot water heating system


A loud thud and shaking lines is not air. It sounds like a valve slamming shut. A check valve will slam if it closes too fast, and a zone valve will slam if it is put in backwards.
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Old 02-15-2014, 07:13 PM   #7
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Loud noises from one zone of Hot water heating system


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Originally Posted by dvaupel View Post
I'm not sure on the terminology, but there are 2 mechanisms right after the boiler, each connected to a thermostat....I think that means there's a specific zone valve. I don't see anything that looks like it would just circulate water.
Ayuh,.... Any chance of a near boiler plumbin' Picture,..??

Air does cause noises, not sure it's causin' yer's though,...

Anything else in the house Suspect,..??

When ya turn that zone On, do All the pipes you can touch, get Hot,..??
What's the pressure in yer system,..??
picture sure would help,...
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Old 02-15-2014, 07:19 PM   #8
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Loud noises from one zone of Hot water heating system


if you had air in the lines you would get poor heat. Have some one turn up the thermostat for that zone, go down and stand beside the boiler , wait a few minutes and then turn down the thermostat and see what happens. you sure it's the heat and not a well pump or ice maker in refrigerator?
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Old 02-15-2014, 11:01 PM   #9
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Loud noises from one zone of Hot water heating system


To answer a few questions...

-Yes, I'm sure it's the heat and not well or ice maker, etc.
-Dead battery in camera at the moment...pictures will have to wait until tomorrow at the earliest
-Nothing else in the house is sketchy
-Pressure is right around 12PSI
-The other zone is always on (Minnesota's been rough this winter), so yes, when I turn on the basement zone, all pipes get hot.

I'm intrigued by the idea of a valve slamming shut. Everything is installed the same on each zone, but the valve for the basement zone was loose. I tightened up screws (although it's missing one) that hold the entire mechanism together and fired up the zone again.

Further thoughts?
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Old 02-16-2014, 06:46 AM   #10
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Loud noises from one zone of Hot water heating system


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Originally Posted by dvaupel View Post
I'm intrigued by the idea of a valve slamming shut. Everything is installed the same on each zone, but the valve for the basement zone was loose. I tightened up screws (although it's missing one) that hold the entire mechanism together and fired up the zone again.

Further thoughts?
Can't go much further without knowing type of zone valve and piping arrangement. Need pictures

What I can tell you though is that most zone valves are built to close AGAINST the flow and if you put them in backwards (which I have seen done) so they close WITH the flow they will slam on closing, and the sudden stop in flow will cause the pipes to shake for a second.
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Old 02-16-2014, 02:19 PM   #11
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Loud noises from one zone of Hot water heating system


Got some pictures now...

In the first image, the valve on the right is for the basement zone. Any other pictures that would be helpful or any other clarifications I can make about the pictures?





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Old 02-16-2014, 02:27 PM   #12
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Loud noises from one zone of Hot water heating system


it appears that there is one circulator and 2 zone valves. I could be one zone valve closing quickly while the other zone valve is open and still calling for heat. Thus the circulator is still running and causes a "hammer" it could also be the valve is closing to quickly, and while circulator is still running and causes hammer. How old are those zone valves?
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Old 02-16-2014, 02:46 PM   #13
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Loud noises from one zone of Hot water heating system


I don't know how old the basement valve is. The other (upstairs) is 2 years old.
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Old 02-16-2014, 03:16 PM   #14
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Loud noises from one zone of Hot water heating system


check the valve body and see if there is a directional arrow on the side of it.
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Old 02-16-2014, 03:52 PM   #15
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Loud noises from one zone of Hot water heating system


In reference to the picture, both valves are labeled 'A' on the top (pipe going up), 'AB' on the left side, and 'B' on the bottom (pipe going down). Both have arrows pointing to 'B'.

Since this doesn't happen at all when just the upstairs zone is active, makes me think this orientation is correct.

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