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Old 08-30-2014, 12:36 AM   #31
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local dealers are way too high


The hvac industry is as loud and proud and firm in it's science, action and re-action, as those whom individually represent it and know what it's about solidify it's excellence as we hold folk hand in brain.

To those who are shady, irrelevant, ignorant, rude, amateur, I extend my utmost gratitude and bid you a farewell along with my utmost and deepest and sincere thanks.

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Old 08-30-2014, 01:15 AM   #32
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local dealers are way too high


Hvac is an industry based upon fact based upon scientific data. There is no side stepping the industry whatsoever.

Consumer ignorance, company politics/procedures, are simply variables. Industry does not change regardless, consumer opinion may of the overall industry dependent upon their individualized experience, but industry does not change due to ignorance.
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Old 08-30-2014, 01:16 AM   #33
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local dealers are way too high


pisses me off as well as enlightens me. transparent how easy it is to excel
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Old 08-30-2014, 08:13 AM   #34
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local dealers are way too high


The Yuri and Doc Show.
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Old 08-30-2014, 04:03 PM   #35
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local dealers are way too high


All the rhetoric and devotion is well and good for those that wish to believe and follow it. But for those that choose to belive and follow another another path must be respected, and given the right of way. Otherwise there can be no new innovation and creativity, only the same old way of doing things to the grave.

Some men see things that are and ask why, other men see things that never were and say why not! (JFK 1960)
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Old 08-30-2014, 04:47 PM   #36
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local dealers are way too high


"And if you Ain't Cheatin you Ain't Tryin"

Famous words of wisdom from great Canadian philosopher and duct tape guru.
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Old 08-30-2014, 11:11 PM   #37
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Some men see things that are and ask why, other men see things that never were and say why not! (JFK 1960)
and thus conditioned air was invented.

your argument would hold water if money was not an option.
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Old 09-02-2014, 10:47 AM   #38
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local dealers are way too high


The thing I find interesting is, with all the *licensed* hacks out there, why license HVAC techs in the 1st place? Doesn't seem to be doing the job it is supposed to be and an unnecessary cost and barrier to entry.

Let private companies certify HVAC techs (e.g. NATE) or like ASE in the automotive world.
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Old 09-02-2014, 11:32 AM   #39
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local dealers are way too high


Licenses vary as to the type and there are several.

I have a Journeyman Refrigeration tech license which allows me to do large refrigeration units etc. Resi stuff is peanuts compared to Commercial units.

However anyone smart enough to have one is a Pro and can do good work anywhere.

Then there are EPA licenses which mean nothing. Just enough to know you need to recover the refrigerant and the laws governing sale of it etc. Does not mean you know left from right.

There may be trade school licenses and other types so it can be misleading to say licensed tech. Only one that has any legal universal value is a Red Seal Journeyman license. There are lots of skilled techs who have a bunch of NATE courses and do Pro work. You do not need a full blown Red Seal ticket to do resi work.

Any license if from a Trade School is better than nothing/good as you have to have enough skills to get one that it gives a good base line. The problem is the hackers and totally unschooled clowns out there pretending to be techs not licensing.
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Old 09-02-2014, 01:03 PM   #40
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local dealers are way too high


MCC HVAC program is top notch. Here in AZ the instructors know there business and ulilize all resources not just the 10,000 sf lab but all the comertial systems over at the casinos. Nevertheless the techs that work for high turn over businesses get allot more residential exspirience and and learn the skills of how to find problems resulting in high repair turn over unless the customer has a prepaid contract, then its a whole different ball game. I can't tell you how many times my neighbors have called me over for a followup assessment almost without exception saving them big bucks. But I was warned by my old instructor as a favor to please not asscess his brothers business customers but call him first. This of course for the most basic of things. I don't pretend to know as much as a seasoned residential service tech who does countless courtesy "free" inspections followed up by service calls, no sir not me. My motivation is strictly to service my rentals as effectively as possible at the lowest cost and the results have been nothing short of amazing. Since I got MCC certified my HVAC repair cost have fallen from hundreds a year to less than $80 a year mostly in preventative maintenance. My neighbor has also saved.
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Old 09-02-2014, 01:18 PM   #41
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local dealers are way too high


In all fairness I like to add that independent techs and small 2 employee HVAC business, including HVAC Handymen are some of the most high honest and effective people in the business. They tend to get so much return customer request that they don't need to advertised (word of mouth) and must turn away business. Sadly theirare only a hand full of these type people.
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Old 09-02-2014, 02:21 PM   #42
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local dealers are way too high


The thing is, joe homeowner is expecting that if they hire a licensed HVAC tech there is a certain minimum of quality/procedures they will follow - this is not the case.

The HVAC tech I had come out to braze my lineset and start up my system didn't even understand how to read his gauges.... and he had been doing it for 20+ years!

He strapped on the temperature sensors to the lineset, looked at the pressure on his gauges and whipped out an old R410 slide rule chart to figure out the subcooling. I pointed out the R410 temperature scale on the dial and told him you just need to subtract that from the liquid line temp to get the subcool.

I of course insisted that he flow nitrogen during brazing, which he never does and thinks is unnecessary.

It's hard for an average joe homeowner to differentiate between the guys that are high quality pros and hacks because having an HVAC license is not enough - so why even do it?

And really, I think there should be different grades of licenses. The knowledge and experienced required to do residential system swap outs is significantly less than to do commercial stuff.
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Old 09-02-2014, 02:22 PM   #43
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local dealers are way too high


Quote:
Originally Posted by CWO4GUNNER View Post
In all fairness I like to add that independent techs and small 2 employee HVAC business, including HVAC Handymen are some of the most high honest and effective people in the business. They tend to get so much return customer request that they don't need to advertised (word of mouth) and must turn away business. Sadly theirare only a hand full of these type people.
wow, you finally posted something that I agree with, except for the "handymen" thing for HVAC.

However, I hope you also understand, I may be a small word of mouth company-but my knowledge level, attention to detail, materials I use, manual J, D, S, T calculations and when I install a piece of equipment just like I would do in my personal house......it ain't the cheapest price you can get.
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Old 09-02-2014, 02:29 PM   #44
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local dealers are way too high


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Originally Posted by sidejobjoe View Post
The thing is, joe homeowner is expecting that if they hire a licensed HVAC tech there is a certain minimum of quality/procedures they will follow - this is not the case.

The HVAC tech I had come out to braze my lineset and start up my system didn't even understand how to read his gauges.... and he had been doing it for 20+ years!

He strapped on the temperature sensors to the lineset, looked at the pressure on his gauges and whipped out an old R410 slide rule chart to figure out the subcooling. I pointed out the R410 temperature scale on the dial and told him you just need to subtract that from the liquid line temp to get the subcool.

I of course insisted that he flow nitrogen during brazing, which he never does and thinks is unnecessary.

It's hard for an average joe homeowner to differentiate between the guys that are high quality pros and hacks because having an HVAC license is not enough - so why even do it?

And really, I think there should be different grades of licenses. The knowledge and experienced required to do residential system swap outs is significantly less than to do commercial stuff.
You got a handyman hvac....

However, I don't think from your other posts, you would pay me what I am worth.

Last edited by Technow; 09-02-2014 at 02:32 PM.
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Old 09-02-2014, 03:27 PM   #45
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local dealers are way too high


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Originally Posted by Technow View Post
wow, you finally posted something that I agree with, except for the "handymen" thing for HVAC.

However, I hope you also understand, I may be a small word of mouth company-but my knowledge level, attention to detail, materials I use, manual J, D, S, T calculations and when I install a piece of equipment just like I would do in my personal house......it ain't the cheapest price you can get.
Handymen get a bad rap becasue people think they are just old guys who hang fans. In reality handymen are usually industry retired folk with superb skills and knowledge, but they are too old to keep pace with a regular tech job. They usually like myself done need the extra income but enjoy their customers and do the type of repair and salvage work that saves the elderly money by repairing what most HVAC business cant use becasue replacement, install, and service contract is the name of the big game.

If what you say is true about your self and your small company, then your dead wrong. You are the cheapest price in town because when you do a job you most likely do it right the first time saving the poor previously hacked home owner thousands.

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