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Old 06-26-2009, 12:41 PM   #1
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Lineset Install


So, let's suppose I replaced my existing AC and furnace with a new Goodman 16 SEER 5 Ton Heatpump with matched cased coil, and 115,000 BTUH 95% variable speed furnace--and a lineset and appropriate thermostat.

Everything lined up for the new equipment, except that 16" had to be removed from the bottom of the existing plenum, which housed the old coil. The existing wiring and plumbing was adequate and close enough to connect.

Now what is left to install is the lineset, a TXV (included in the heatpump package) for the coil, a few line fittings, a few line hangers, and some refrigerant. Plus evacuation, line testing, system chackout, etc.

What might be the the price range to expect for the AC service call? The house is single family detached in Washington DC. The line run is 15 feet (5 feet up, 10 feet horizontal) through the existing opening in the outside wall. The lineset is 25 feet. There is plenty of working space inside and outside for access. The only cpmplication I see involves following the instructions that came with the TXV--instructions that I understand.

Anyway--my question: Price range?

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Old 06-26-2009, 12:52 PM   #2
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Lineset Install


depends on what you want them to do,,,adjust charge, check air flow, fire up the faf, etc

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Old 06-26-2009, 01:28 PM   #3
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depends on what you want them to do,,,adjust charge, check air flow, fire up the faf, etc

I posted what I want them to do. But, to be more specific, only the AC part is involved here. And, of course, without the refrigerant lines being hooked up, the AC system does not work at all now.

The furnace works, as well as that can be determined in 90 degree weather. So there is air flow which seems as good as the old system which had similar airflow ratings and the same size--one HP-- blower motor. But, yes, the charge may well need adjusting. And the system needs to pass a rudimentary cooling test. In this case, the discharge air from certain registers should be considerably cooler than before. The old AC was three tons. The new one is 5 tons. And there should not be any nasty pinging noises coming from the lines or coils indicating debris in the system. The heat pump function also can be given a basic operational test by playing with the thermostat settings.
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Old 06-26-2009, 01:59 PM   #4
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Lineset Install


Wow a 3 ton to a 5 ton. You must have had alot of fun making all of the needed ductwork changes. Hope you didn't cut up your hands to bad, LOL

As for your question your being kind of vague. Do you want someone to run the lineset? Weld in connections? Wire low voltage? and I assume pump down and start up. Just where are you with the installation?
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Old 06-26-2009, 02:56 PM   #5
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Wow a 3 ton to a 5 ton. You must have had alot of fun making all of the needed ductwork changes. Hope you didn't cut up your hands to bad, LOL
All the needed ductwork changes were made a long time ago. This has been a work-in-progress since 1984 with the installation of the original equipment,, including a 12" x 28" main duct through the basement, then up to the third floor. Ducts added as the family grew up and more rooms were used. The test for the air circulation was about two years ago when I replaced the original blower and motor to up the flow from 2000 to a max possible of 3000 CFM. Never had the cooling power to deal acceptably with the space to be cooled since my two oldest took over the third floor.

Quote by hvac122: As for your question your being kind of vague. Do you want someone to run the lineset? Weld in connections? Wire low voltage? and I assume pump down and start up. Just where are you with the installation?

All of this except low voltage, which is in place--hopefully on the the right terminals. Cannot test the outdoor unit wiring until the rest is done.
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Old 06-26-2009, 02:57 PM   #6
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Lineset Install


Everything HVAC122 said

Also, did you add 1,200-1,500 squares to your home? I know you did not ask anything related to this, but why did you add two additional tons of air? Did the original 3 ton ever work correctly and cool the current space?
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Old 06-26-2009, 06:01 PM   #7
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Everything HVAC122 said

Also, did you add 1,200-1,500 squares to your home? I know you did not ask anything related to this, but why did you add two additional tons of air? Did the original 3 ton ever work correctly and cool the current space?
I suppose I knew there would be more questions. So here goes.

This is a four level house, including a fully finished basement. 6500 square feet. Built in 1923. Masonry walls 12 inches thick. There is an open staircase from the first floor (level 2) to the third floor. When we set out to rescue the place in 1981, there were 59 leaky windows, 50 radiators, and a 450,000 BTUH 50% efficient gas boiler. Our estimates for cooling were 15 to 17.5 tons. So we set out to tame the beast.

By 1984 we had all thermal windows and doors. Room renovations always included a new partition wall stuffed with insulation directly in front of outside walls. But we only had a couple of window ACs. In the midst of a kitichen-dining room redo, I decided we had enough of the house torn up that we were ready for central air. I believed that 3 tons would do for floors one and two, that the basement's needs were marginal, and that we could close off all the rooms on the third floor and add ductless split systems to the third floor later.

In my search for available stuff, I looked at Sears. They had some HVAC stuff at local stores. Then I checked the Sears catalog and found a treasure trove of stuff. All of the equipment, ducts, and hardware to do a complete job. Plus very helpful instructions for DIYers. So we bought a Sears furnace (105000 BTUH 96%), Sears AC (36000 BTUH, 10.5 SEER), a plenum to fit the furnace and hold the coil,a lineset, all the ductwork and parts I could think of, a Honeywell air cleaner and a thermostat. After a week of planning, it took a day to pour concrete for an outside pad, another day to mortar up cinder blocks as a base for the inside stuff, another day to put the equipment in place, wire everything up, and screw together the lineset with the components, and then we turned it on. Cooling. But no ducts. This went on until we had cooling for the first floor kitchen project, and then the master bedroom on the second floor. It was nearly a year later that we finished the kitchen renovation project and had ducts that covered all of the first and second floor, and some token air in one room of the third floor. And then on the following year, we rested.

So, this all worked well until two of my children moved to the third floor and started complaining incessantly about their degree of comfort. The ductless idea no longer appealed to me, but I had another idea--extend the return air plenum to the third floor, add return ducts to the third floor near the ceiling where most of the hot air in the house accumulated, and add some more cooling by an 8 inch duct run through the return air plenum. By this time my kids were old enough to handle tools and do heavy lifting, so they worked and I designed. We also swapped out the blower and motor in the furnace to get a lot more air flow. It all worked, but the cooling capacity was not great enough to hold a setpoint during Washington's hot spells (morning temps in the 80s, evening temps 85 to 95), and the AC runs continuously with the temp at the thermostat going from 75 to 80-85. Dry, but warm. So I think the ductwork is adequate, a one horsepower blower is adequate, but we need more cooling.

When the 20008-9 Energy Tax Credit came to my attention, I decided now is the time to buy, and I got the biggest and best stuff I could buy directly at a really good price. The difference in price between a 4 ton and 5 ton was small, and the difference between a heatpump and a regular ac was fairly small, and I am still about $300 short of spending enough to get the full tax credit (30% of expenditures up to $1500 credit).

Now I am at the point where I need professional help with the refrigeration part, and I am getting pushback from guys I have talked to in terms of price. It seems like they want to make the same amount of profit as if they has sold me the equipment, they do not trust me, and one told me I can go to jail just for purchasing the parts.

Does that provide enough background? I have a large backlog of stories about this house, some far more interesting than the one I just told.
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Old 06-26-2009, 07:00 PM   #8
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Lineset Install


Wow! Ask and ye shall receive

6500 squares. That makes my head hurt. I come from a different angle than most here, as I operate the same type of operation that you purchased your system from, so I will let the installation pros answer your question about installation and or start up prices.

But, rest assured that no one is going to jail. Don't take that type of talk from anyone. It is your checkbook, and you have all the power. With that comes a heavier responsibility, but you sound like you have put a lot of thought into your process. My original question about the upsize was because I see too many homeowners (and some contractors too) have the bigger is better mindset and they get into trouble.

You will find a contractor. Keep making calls and interviewing. Be sure to offer that you are more than willing to pay the contractors going rate for his time and any materials that he has to furnish and that because of the circumstances of your project, you only expect him to guarantee his work and not that of the equipment. And don't accept the attitude if you have explained all of this up front. You don't have too. Be respectful of the contractors time, as you would expect the same of your time.

Good luck with your project.

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