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Old 01-10-2012, 08:06 AM   #1
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Lennox HVAC in Watchguard Mode (4+1)


Please forgiv eme as I know very little about HVAC units. To avoid a duplicate thread, before posting, I did try searching and I have read through a few different posts on a few different forums and not found a definitive answer. If someone can either point me in the right direction to a link with instructions, or give me a qucik how-to I would be greatly appreciative.

I have a Lennox HVAC unit (I have the HVAC model as c33-25a-2f-2, but I believe that is the AC unit), I am not sure of the ingition model and I am at work now and can not check. I took pictures of the unit and can send them to someone if that would help identify it. It was installed in 2006. I am not getting heat on a regular basis. I am getting a 4+1 error code light ( Red blinks 4 times then blinks 1 time) which according to the sticker on the box indicates (Burner failed to ignite, exceeded maximum retries). The only way I have found to fix this temporarily is to shut off power to the unit, wait about a minute, and turn the power back on. When I do this, it will either come back on and stay on until the desired thermostat temp is met, or it will try to ignite ( flame for 3 seconds from burners) and then turn back off. It tries it a few times and then the red light starts blinking again. I removed the panel/cover to expose the unit and can see through a little round glass window. From what I can see in there, there are 3 burners that the gas is coming out of. On the burner futhest to the right, there is a rod that glows orange (ignitor?) before the flames come on. That rod looks like it comes up from the bottom. There is also a rod(sensor?) in front of the far left burner that does not light up that looks like it comes in from the top. I believe that is the rod that proves flame to the board to keep the gas on. I have read on previous posts to clean the rod. Is the rod on the left the one I want to clean? It looks like it should be removable. I see on the top of the ignition unit there is a cap with wires going to it, it looks as if I remove that, the rod would come out with it. I havent messed with it yet because I know very little about HVAC systems. My quesiton is, how does this piece come out (pull out, twist?), and do I need to shut off power and gas to the unit before removing this rod to clean it? Or is there something else that could be causing the issue?

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Old 01-10-2012, 08:22 AM   #2
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Lennox HVAC in Watchguard Mode (4+1)


The model number is for the cased coil, but thats ok......the explanation that you gave tells me that the burner crossovers are dirty, if the flame does not cross over and reach the flame sensor the furnace will not light.
If you are mechanically inclined you can remove the burners and clean the crossovers your self, if not you will most likely want to call a Lennox dealer to have the unit serviced.

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Old 01-10-2012, 08:49 AM   #3
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Lennox HVAC in Watchguard Mode (4+1)


If the flame comes on for second and then immediately shuts off then I would think it's the flames sensor. If the flame is not coming on at all I'd have to think the ignitor.
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Old 01-10-2012, 09:08 AM   #4
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Lennox HVAC in Watchguard Mode (4+1)


post the complete model # from inside the furnace cabinet ie: G61V xxx and I/we can walk you thru cleaning the flame sensor.
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Old 01-10-2012, 09:17 AM   #5
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Lennox HVAC in Watchguard Mode (4+1)


First off, thank you for your quick and helpful reply! I do have a few more followup questions for you, if you dont mind.

Is the flame sensor the rod that is in front of the far left burner?(It appears to be inserted from the top and has 2 wires coming out of it. I am getting flame out of all three burners when it lights and and it looks like its hitting that rod. ( I have not tried cleaning this rod yet, should I try cleaning that prior to taking out the burners and cleaning the crossover?)

Is the burner crossover the metal bar at the bottom of the burners that looks like it connects all 3 burners together? I am fairly mechanically inclined and would be willing to give it a shot. I would obviously shut power off to the unit while cleaning it, but would I also need to shut the gas off to the unit while removing the burners to clean the crossovers?

If I do need to remove the burners, is accessing them a matter of removing the front cover(piece with round window which looks like there are 4 bolts holding it in, one of them has what appears to be a ground wire connected to it) and then I will have access to the burners? I am including pictures of the front of the unit and a picture from above the unit where I believe the rod(flame sensor) is located.

Thank you again!

Justin
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Lennox HVAC in Watchguard Mode (4+1)-img_2295.jpg   Lennox HVAC in Watchguard Mode (4+1)-img_2312.jpg  
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Old 01-10-2012, 09:19 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by yuri View Post
post the complete model # from inside the furnace cabinet ie: G61V xxx and I/we can walk you thru cleaning the flame sensor.

Sorry I was typing my post as you all replied so I did not see these before my last post. When I get home from work today ( 5pm EST) I will verify the model number and follow up. In the meantime, I did attach some pictures that I took prior to leaving for work this morning, in case that helps to identify it at all.
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Old 01-10-2012, 09:30 AM   #7
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Lennox HVAC in Watchguard Mode (4+1)


don't worry, I work on hundreds of those units, it is a G60. no need to clean any crossovers etc. the flame sensor has one white wire to it and sits in front of the left burner. clean it with clean steel wool until it is shiny. you have been getting water dripping off the exhaust fan and onto the furnace deck and that should be checked out by a Pro. possibly the AC coil if you have one is overflowing and has a dirty drain. water dripping can cause MAJOR damage to the circuit board etc.
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Last edited by yuri; 01-10-2012 at 09:33 AM.
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Old 01-10-2012, 09:32 AM   #8
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If the flame comes on for second and then immediately shuts off then I would think it's the flames sensor. If the flame is not coming on at all I'd have to think the ignitor.
Yes, when I turn power back on to the unit, it sounds like the unit turns on and starts blowing, a few seconds later, the ignitor(I'm assuming the rod that glows bright orange that sits in front of the far right burner is the ignitor) starts glowing orange, and then the burners kick on (all 3) and will stay on for a few seconds and kick off. If the flame sensor is the rod (looks about 3 inches in length and appears to be inserted from the top) that sits in front of the far left burner, it is definitely getting flame to it. This process will repeat itself a few times and then it stops and I get the 4+1 blinking red Watchguard light.

When I try it again, the ignitor glows, burners come and and stay on until the house heats up the the temperature that the thermostat is set at. It's 50/50 whether it stays on or turns off, which seems that a dirty sensor not recognizing flame would make sense, but again I have no knowledge of HVAC units and just going off of reasoning. I know my gas fireplace unit has a sensor that if the pilot light shuts off, the flow of gas stops, so I'm assuming its similar to that to avoid the flow of gas in to my house.

I am running LP, not sure if it matters, but I dont want to leave any helpful details out.

And in regards to cleaning the sensor, if thats whats needed, any recommendations? Steel Wool, Sandpaper?
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Old 01-10-2012, 09:33 AM   #9
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don't worry, I work on hundreds of those units, it is a G60. no need to clean any crossovers etc. the flame sensor has one white wire to it and sits in front of the left burner. clean it with clean steel wool until it is shiny.
Outstanding! I see the white wire you are referring to in my second picture. I have steel wool at home and will clean it when I get home. Does the sensor just pull out, or is it threaded?
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Old 01-10-2012, 09:36 AM   #10
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it has a 1/4 inch hex head screw. may need a stubby nut driver or regular one. reread my previous post as I added to it.
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Old 01-10-2012, 09:45 AM   #11
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Lennox HVAC in Watchguard Mode (4+1)


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Originally Posted by onefastwrex View Post
Yes, when I turn power back on to the unit, it sounds like the unit turns on and starts blowing, a few seconds later, the ignitor(I'm assuming the rod that glows bright orange that sits in front of the far right burner is the ignitor) starts glowing orange, and then the burners kick on (all 3) and will stay on for a few seconds and kick off. If the flame sensor is the rod (looks about 3 inches in length and appears to be inserted from the top) that sits in front of the far left burner, it is definitely getting flame to it. This process will repeat itself a few times and then it stops and I get the 4+1 blinking red Watchguard light.

When I try it again, the ignitor glows, burners come and and stay on until the house heats up the the temperature that the thermostat is set at. It's 50/50 whether it stays on or turns off, which seems that a dirty sensor not recognizing flame would make sense, but again I have no knowledge of HVAC units and just going off of reasoning. I know my gas fireplace unit has a sensor that if the pilot light shuts off, the flow of gas stops, so I'm assuming its similar to that to avoid the flow of gas in to my house.

I am running LP, not sure if it matters, but I dont want to leave any helpful details out.

And in regards to cleaning the sensor, if thats whats needed, any recommendations? Steel Wool, Sandpaper?
Yuri is the Lennox expert but all furnaces act in the same manor and I'm 99.999% certain all you need to do is clean that flame sensor. Sut builds up and the metal gets a kind of burnt coating. I use the green scotchbrite dish scouring pad to clean 'em, keep one in my tool bag.

you got it, simple fix.
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Old 01-10-2012, 09:45 AM   #12
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it has a 1/4 inch hex head screw. may need a stubby nut driver or regular one. reread my previous post as I added to it.
Yuri,

Thank you again for all of your help! It is greatly appreciated! I will try cleaning the sensor with steel wool when I get home and post my results. I will definitely get someone out to check out the dripping issue as well. I wish you were more local to my area as you seem to really know your stuff.

Thanks again!
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Old 01-10-2012, 09:47 AM   #13
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No Problema. Glad to Help. Pay it forward and help someone else, works for me.
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Old 01-10-2012, 09:54 AM   #14
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Lennox HVAC in Watchguard Mode (4+1)


Hey Onefastwrex
The fast response to pinpointing the cause and solution to your problem was largely due to your complete descriptions which eliminated much of the usual back and forth guessing. It was a pleasure to read.
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Old 01-10-2012, 10:10 AM   #15
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Hey Onefastwrex
The fast response to pinpointing the cause and solution to your problem was largely due to your complete descriptions which eliminated much of the usual back and forth guessing. It was a pleasure to read.
Thank you! I work for a wireless communications company (Verizon Wireless) and I know how difficult it can be trying to provide technical support and troubleshoot something without actually being there to see the problem and it can be extremely frustrating going back and forth trying to get a proper explanation of the actual issue, so whenever I need help with something, I always try to give as much detail as possible about my issue.

Although I must also give credit to the members of this forum for being so helpful and knowledgable and willing to help out someone who has no knowledge of the equipment that they are trying to fix. I have used different forums in the past for different things(cars, electronics etc.) and when asking questions I am usually met with a barrage of "Use the search button" responses and other snide remarks, none of which are helpful of course. I found none of that here. I got extremely helpful answers from very knowledgeable people who are willing to help someone out in a bind ( I have a wife and 18 month old son at home) and I have to leave town for 2 days for a business trip tomorrow and didn't want to have to have my wife running downstairs to the basement to keep restarting the furnace to try to get heat, especally with how cold it has been getting at night, nor did I want to have to put in a service call for something that I had a feeling would hopefully be a quick/easy fix that I could do myself and save a couple bucks.

So thank you again to everyone here, you guys are first class and I greatly appreciate all of the information you provied me.

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