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Old 07-22-2010, 11:35 PM   #1
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Lennox AC in upstate NY


I am currently in the market for a new Lennox AC and Furnace to replace my 22y/o units. I have had two contractors up for Lennox system quotes and the first was pushing the XC-16 or XC-21 hi eff AC's along with the furnace (at this point I am decided on the G71). Now I had the second contractor up today and when we got to discussing AC he said why would I want to spend two grand more on the XC16 (he thought the XC21 was insane) here in upstate NY. He said if we were talking about Arizona that would be something different. His point was I would never even get close to breaking even on the difference in cost of a 13 SEER Lennox to the 16 SEER Lennox in it's service life. He'll write up the invoice so the furnace will get me the max $1500 federal tax credit, nothing extra to get for the AC. I went to Lennox's energy calculator online and confirmed what he was saying. I just wanted to ask you guys if im missing something here or is it bat**** stupid for me to spend two grand more for an XC16 where I live. Thanks

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Old 07-23-2010, 06:26 AM   #2
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Lennox AC in upstate NY


The XC 16 is a 2 stage unit which de-humidifies better and is really useful in Florida etc. It is more efficient so that has value everywhere. I would recommend the XC14. It is very quiet, you can have a conversation next to it w/o raising your voice. Coupled with the G71 (Great furnace) you get a effective 15 SEER package. Best value for your buck in your climate IMO. My co. sells lots of that combo. We sell the XC16 and 17 but usually to the Lexus crowd (stokes their ego).

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Old 07-23-2010, 06:34 AM   #3
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Lennox AC in upstate NY


Any incentive from the electric company? Ours was giving $500 per ton on the high seer equiptment and nothing on the 13. That let me get an xp19 for basicly the same cost as a 13 seer.
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Old 07-23-2010, 07:50 AM   #4
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Lennox AC in upstate NY


He's right, and he's wrong.

That energy calculator doesn't take into account. That if the 2 stage removes enough moisture from your home. You may end up setting your thermostat 2 degrees warmer then you would with a single stage. And save more yet.

However. 2 stage is for COMFORT, not great money savings. So the question is. How much is your comfort worth to you.

As above. See if your state and your electric company are offering any incentives.

Depending on your gas and electric rate. Consider going dual fuel. And save even more on your heating bill.

If your area has low humidity. Then you won't get as much benefit from a 2 stage. If your area has high humidity, then you'll get a lot of improvement in your homes comfort, and more savings with a 2 stage. Then he let on.

Contractors that sell on price. Generally have never installed a 2 stage. And don't know how well they work.
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Old 07-23-2010, 08:57 AM   #5
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Lennox AC in upstate NY


Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty S. View Post
Any incentive from the electric company? Ours was giving $500 per ton on the high seer equiptment and nothing on the 13. That let me get an xp19 for basicly the same cost as a 13 seer.
They stopped early this year. No warning either, the contractors have been telling me how people were budgeting their purchases expecting certain incentives from National Grid and when they sent in the paperwork they said 'oh sorry we stopped doing that'.
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Old 07-23-2010, 09:02 AM   #6
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Lennox AC in upstate NY


Quote:
Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
He's right, and he's wrong.

That energy calculator doesn't take into account. That if the 2 stage removes enough moisture from your home. You may end up setting your thermostat 2 degrees warmer then you would with a single stage. And save more yet.

However. 2 stage is for COMFORT, not great money savings. So the question is. How much is your comfort worth to you.

As above. See if your state and your electric company are offering any incentives.

Depending on your gas and electric rate. Consider going dual fuel. And save even more on your heating bill.

If your area has low humidity. Then you won't get as much benefit from a 2 stage. If your area has high humidity, then you'll get a lot of improvement in your homes comfort, and more savings with a 2 stage. Then he let on.

Contractors that sell on price. Generally have never installed a 2 stage. And don't know how well they work.
I hear you about the comfort, that's what sold me on the G71 over the two stage non-variable G61. I'm not a high humidity area, but regardless im reading how the new high efficiency units don't de-humidify as well as the standard ones. So there is some debate on the comfort angle as well. Here's a recent thread I just was reading about this: < Removed link to another forum >

Last edited by beenthere; 07-23-2010 at 02:23 PM. Reason: removed link
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Old 07-23-2010, 11:46 AM   #7
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Lennox AC in upstate NY


That is incorrect. The proper thing to do is get a heat load calculation done and get the proper sized unit. If it is too large it does not run long enough to de-humidify the air. The SEER is just how much energy it uses, not how long it runs. The most important thing is to get a reputable experienced contractor to install and set it up properly. Make sure they are installing a TX thermostatic expansion valve for the indoor AC coil and not a orifice. That furnace has some amazing abilities to adjust the airflow for maximum dehumidifying if the contractor knows how to set it up properly. I work on LOTS of them and can walk you thru it later if necessary. Ask him if he knows how to set the dip switches to tailor the fan speed to the size of AC. If his eyes go blank or roll in his head then you have a problem. He also needs to know how to adjust the freon level with the approach or subcool method. 2 more questions you can ask. Probably only less than 10% of contractors know how to do this irregardless of brand.

Spend a few bucks and do the load calculation (furnace and AC) yourself. Well worth the $$:Load Calculator
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Last edited by yuri; 07-23-2010 at 11:59 AM.
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Old 07-23-2010, 02:25 PM   #8
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Lennox AC in upstate NY


Guess you missed my reply in that thread you linked to.

By the way. No links to other forums. I removed it.

Some newer units do have a higher SHR.

But, a high efficiency 2 stage will dehumidify more then a lower efficiency single stage.

Contractor that say they don't/can't. Either haven't installed them. Or oversized them when they did sell and install them, and of course had problems.
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Old 07-23-2010, 02:31 PM   #9
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Lennox AC in upstate NY


Quote:
Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
Guess you missed my reply in that thread you linked to.

By the way. No links to other forums. I removed it.

Some newer units do have a higher SHR.

But, a high efficiency 2 stage will dehumidify more then a lower efficiency single stage.

Contractor that say they don't/can't. Either haven't installed them. Or oversized them when they did sell and install them, and of course had problems.
I apologize about the link.

Thanks for all the replies
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Old 07-23-2010, 02:35 PM   #10
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Lennox AC in upstate NY


Quote:
Originally Posted by yuri View Post
The XC 16 is a 2 stage unit which de-humidifies better and is really useful in Florida etc. It is more efficient so that has value everywhere. I would recommend the XC14. It is very quiet, you can have a conversation next to it w/o raising your voice. Coupled with the G71 (Great furnace) you get a effective 15 SEER package. Best value for your buck in your climate IMO. My co. sells lots of that combo. We sell the XC16 and 17 but usually to the Lexus crowd (stokes their ego).
Done! Just got off the phone with the contractor, mentioned i'd be more interested in the XC14 over the XC13. He upgraded the system quote for free.

Again thanks for everyones help here.

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