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Old 06-26-2014, 11:59 AM   #1
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Insuring that warranties will be honored.


What can we ask for or do to make sure the warranties on our new HVAC system will be honored?

We are about to have our Heat Pump, Coil, Gas Furnace and Condenser replaced with new Carrier equipment.

The new equipment comes with a 10 year parts, 1 year labor warranty. We are going to purchase the extra 10 year (really 9) labor warranty too. Apparently some part of this warranty (the labor maybe) will be the responsibility of a third party insurer (not Carrier or the local installer).

We had a bad experience with another brand and don't want a repeat.

The other brand is Goodman. We have a 10 year, extended parts AND labor warranty, in writing, mailed to us by the factory shortly after the system was installed. The system is 8 years old and the coil has failed for the second time. The local distributor says we only have 10 years on parts and 6 years on labor. Goodman and the distributor deny any knowledge of the hard copy Goodman official 10 year parts AND labor warranty that I have shown and copied to them.

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Old 06-26-2014, 12:23 PM   #2
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Insuring that warranties will be honored.


Forget the installer extended warranty. As for the manufacturer, yes they will honor their warranty, as long as the unit is properly installed, per manufacturer spec's.

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Old 06-26-2014, 01:02 PM   #3
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Forget the installer extended warranty. As for the manufacturer, yes they will honor their warranty, as long as the unit is properly installed, per manufacturer spec's.
Thanks for your advice.

The new install company is Carrier Authorized, trained, etc. And I am very impressed with their operation. They will do a good job. So, I guess that takes care of the 10 year parts and 1 year labor warranty.

The other issue is the insurance type company that will be backing the 10 year (really 9) labor warranty. Supposedly any Carrier dealer will be able to honor the 10 year labor warranty and get paid for their labor by this insurance company. I just don't know how to get comfortable about that company backing the labor warranty when something breaks down.
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Old 06-26-2014, 01:26 PM   #4
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Insuring that warranties will be honored.


It does not matter if they are authorized or trained by a company. What matters is the human doing the work. As for who honors the warranty. It would be the manufacturer of the equipment, not the company installing it.

It really comes down to not the brand of equipment, but the human(s) that did the work. Warranties are the biggest money maker for companies. They make nothing off of the sale of the equipment to the customer. Most times, they are taking a loss on the sale of the equipment. So they in turn push warranties and raise install costs, to cover.
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Old 06-26-2014, 02:09 PM   #5
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Insuring that warranties will be honored.


If you have a hard copy of a warranty on a Goodman letterhead then it is legal and they have to honor it. Otherwise call the BBB or consumers bureau or media or whoever takes care of fraud and false advertising. On most or all warranties nowadays you must have maintenance done once a year and a copy of the bill to prove it. Same as cars you have to get your maintenance done or no warranty. People destroy units from drywall dust in coils and no maintenance so they have to get tough n that.

Some warranties are done by a third party and they enforce the proof of maintenance issue. I doubt Goodman or Carrier want people going on social media and saying they got defrauded. Just need to talk to the district manager or someone higher up the corporate chain and you will get results. I deal with Lennox and believe me you can get results if you go up the food chain.

If the unit had a 10 yr warranty and failed after 4 yrs and they changed the coil then you get another 6 yrs of warranty not 10 more. I suspect the devil is in the details/wording of your claim here.

Those warranties are good and when we sell units it is added to the cost after the sale (not built into the price or marked up) only if the customer wants it. They are not money makers and we could not care less if they buy them. We like to sell them a service/maintenance contract to keep them close to us. There is a big difference between these warranties and one you get for a TV at Best By. Those make huge $$ for them and on small items are not worth it IMO.
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Old 06-26-2014, 02:59 PM   #6
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If you have a hard copy of a warranty on a Goodman letterhead then it is legal and they have to honor it. Otherwise call the BBB or consumers bureau or media or whoever takes care of fraud and false advertising. On most or all warranties nowadays you must have maintenance done once a year and a copy of the bill to prove it.

Some warranties are done by a third party and they enforce the proof of maintenance issue. I doubt Goodman or Carrier want people going on social media and saying they got defrauded. Just need to talk to the district manager or someone higher up the corporate chain and you will get results. I deal with Lennox and believe me you can get results if you go up the food chain.

If the unit had a 10 yr warranty and failed after 4 yrs and they changed the coil then you get another 6 yrs of warranty not 10 more. I suspect the devil is in the details/wording of your claim here.
We have had yearly maintenance and the receipts to prove it. I know that 8 years are gone on the 10 year warranty. All I will get, if I go after them as you suggest (which does sound reasonable) is labor and parts for two more years.

I faxed a copy of the 10 year Goodman warranty to Goodman and to the local company that has been doing the maintenance for the last few years. I thought one or the other of those would get results. They didn't.

I'm tired of getting the run around from Goodman and their dealers. If they have to be threatened with public humiliation before they will do their jobs, I don't want them anywhere near me.

I know that's probably not the smartest way to react - financially - but dragging this argument out with them, not being able to trust them, etc. is just way more hassle and stress than I need.

---------------------------------------

I didn't mean for this post to be about bad behavior by Goodman.

What I need to know is how to get a legally binding document from the third party insurance company that will be paying out money if I need to use the 10 year labor warranty on the new Carrier system.

And also, is that a standard way to handle extended labor warranties? Why would Carrier, or any other manufacturer, offer 10 years on parts themselves but hand off the labor to a third party?

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Old 06-26-2014, 04:52 PM   #7
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Good thing this did not happy to my Dad. He would murder them. Like a bloodsport for him to go after crooked contracts and beaurocracy and that kind of cr*ap. Like turning a pit bull on them.

Anyway there are many versions of these warranties. Kinda like those home insurance companies. They buy each other up and it is hard to keep track of them and who owns who. I know it sucks but the likes of Lennox, Carrier etc go shopping around for features and rates and decide which brand of the day/one they are going to use. They are multimillion dollar deals so I guess that is why. Only advice I can give you is to go up the corporate ladder. It scares the sheet out of them if you threaten to go on social media. Very few people want the hassle but I doubt it is that hard. Kinda like why do huge companies use call centres. Easier and cheaper for them to have a private insurance company manage it ( or use a call centre for phones ). They specialize in HVAC design not the insurance biz. The parts is easy for them to do as they have their own parts depots and tracking systems anyways.

If you are getting a 10 yr warranty from Joes heat em and cheatem or some guy with a pickup it is only as good as long as he is in biz or willing to answer the phone or drop a cash customer to do warranty jobs. It is literally with him. These third party ones at least it is a actual warranty that won't disappear when they go broke.
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Old 06-26-2014, 06:44 PM   #8
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Insuring that warranties will be honored.


If you are dealing with a Carrier authorized dealer there is a good chance that provided they are still in business in 10 years you won't have any issues with getting them to do the warranty work. In my experience I have seen that Carrier uses a tiered system for labor warranty so you buy warranty based on a given labor rate. If the rate goes beyond what you have insured against you may have to pay the difference, the dealer gets some money up front, but also makes money on your warranty call, so they will be happy to come back and do work for you.

The dealer should be able to provide you with the finer points, ask for some references from other customers who may have used their warranty service in the past, if you get good reports then thumbs up.
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Old 06-26-2014, 09:31 PM   #9
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If you are dealing with a Carrier authorized dealer there is a good chance that provided they are still in business in 10 years you won't have any issues with getting them to do the warranty work. In my experience I have seen that Carrier uses a tiered system for labor warranty so you buy warranty based on a given labor rate. If the rate goes beyond what you have insured against you may have to pay the difference, the dealer gets some money up front, but also makes money on your warranty call, so they will be happy to come back and do work for you.

The dealer should be able to provide you with the finer points, ask for some references from other customers who may have used their warranty service in the past, if you get good reports then thumbs up.
Excellent info and advice. Thanks.
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Old 06-26-2014, 09:35 PM   #10
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And HVAC companies wonder why people are buying gear off the internet and having it installed at ~1/2 the price - even if it voids their warranty.
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Old 06-26-2014, 09:40 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by yuri View Post
Anyway there are many versions of these warranties. Kinda like those home insurance companies. They buy each other up and it is hard to keep track of them and who owns who. I know it sucks but the likes of Lennox, Carrier etc go shopping around for features and rates and decide which brand of the day/one they are going to use. They are multimillion dollar deals so I guess that is why. Only advice I can give you is to go up the corporate ladder. It scares the sheet out of them if you threaten to go on social media. Very few people want the hassle but I doubt it is that hard. Kinda like why do huge companies use call centres. Easier and cheaper for them to have a private insurance company manage it ( or use a call centre for phones ). They specialize in HVAC design not the insurance biz. The parts is easy for them to do as they have their own parts depots and tracking systems anyways.

If you are getting a 10 yr warranty from Joes heat em and cheatem or some guy with a pickup it is only as good as long as he is in biz or willing to answer the phone or drop a cash customer to do warranty jobs. It is literally with him. These third party ones at least it is a actual warranty that won't disappear when they go broke.
Excellent info. I agree about the wheeling and dealing bit. That's what scares me about the third party insurer idea. Yes, it is currently a going, real business, but since it is in the financial sector, I can easily imagine that some bad behavior might turn right when I need their help.

I will do some checking to see if they are a good bet or not.

My personal rant now: Too bad there are so many crooked people running loose - especially in the financial sector - and no one to put them in jail. If you steel a loaf of bread, you will do time. If you steal money from thousands or millions of people, from inside a big corporation, you will get to keep your bonuses for doing a good job.
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Old 06-26-2014, 11:13 PM   #12
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The worst part is these CEOs. One day you are the CEO of Criesler, do a bad job, get your nice severance buyout and a week later you are the CEO of Honeewell or whomever. Like hockey or football coaches. They just flip them from one big corporation to another and if they do a good job great, bad job well they get paid or bought out anyway. Nice gig. Only thing better is a politician gig.
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Old 06-27-2014, 11:16 PM   #13
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Insuring that warranties will be honored.


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Originally Posted by John_W View Post
What can we ask for or do to make sure the warranties on our new HVAC system will be honored?

We are about to have our Heat Pump, Coil, Gas Furnace and Condenser replaced with new Carrier equipment.

The new equipment comes with a 10 year parts, 1 year labor warranty. We are going to purchase the extra 10 year (really 9) labor warranty too. Apparently some part of this warranty (the labor maybe) will be the responsibility of a third party insurer (not Carrier or the local installer).

We had a bad experience with another brand and don't want a repeat.

The other brand is Goodman. We have a 10 year, extended parts AND labor warranty, in writing, mailed to us by the factory shortly after the system was installed. The system is 8 years old and the coil has failed for the second time. The local distributor says we only have 10 years on parts and 6 years on labor. Goodman and the distributor deny any knowledge of the hard copy Goodman official 10 year parts AND labor warranty that I have shown and copied to them.
Ive never had an issue with a goodman coil,Are you sure it wasn't an installer issue?
Ive had plenty of issues with carrier equipment,especially coils in the past.
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Old 06-28-2014, 08:51 AM   #14
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Ive never had an issue with a goodman coil,Are you sure it wasn't an installer issue?
Ive had plenty of issues with carrier equipment,especially coils in the past.
Thanks for your comment.

I'm not an HVAC professional. I understand that how something gets installed (like a coil) can affect its life expectancy.

Both the original (copper) and the replacement (aluminum) coils were installed by the same guy. We had unacceptable vibrations from the second coil (the unit is suspended from the floor joists). The installer could not remedy the problem. We switched to a different HVAC company, they brought in the Goodman rep who spent half a day going over the system, replaced all the coolant, checked everything he could and that made a modest improvement in the vibration.

Is it your understanding that Carrier coils are still troublesome or have they improved in recent years?
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Old 06-28-2014, 12:58 PM   #15
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Thanks for your comment.

I'm not an HVAC professional. I understand that how something gets installed (like a coil) can affect its life expectancy.

Both the original (copper) and the replacement (aluminum) coils were installed by the same guy. We had unacceptable vibrations from the second coil (the unit is suspended from the floor joists). The installer could not remedy the problem. We switched to a different HVAC company, they brought in the Goodman rep who spent half a day going over the system, replaced all the coolant, checked everything he could and that made a modest improvement in the vibration.

Is it your understanding that Carrier coils are still troublesome or have they improved in recent years?
If it was a vibration issue with the coil Id be more inclined to look at how the furnace and duct work were installed/supported,or maybe a bad blower wheel.theres no moving parts in the coil itself to make it vibrate.
I personally gave up on carrier years ago for a variety of issues,so I don't have any experience with there newer coils.

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