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Old 08-01-2011, 11:28 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krrgyy View Post
Due to this site I was able to locate an local expert and both systems rebuilt and work fantastic. I will speak and post pictures later about success.

I have 2 questions-
1) 4 ton 6 year old unit...the txv valve sensing bulb was installed upside down...(now corrected) Is this a big deal?

2) The systems (brand new unit and 6 year old unit) I was informed had "contaminated" refrigerant. Previous installer says this is impossible and that they have never heard of such a thing. Is it possible and with poor quality install is it likely?

THX

I spoke with the hvac contractor you used. He said you were an awesome individual and that he not only got a little bit of work from this deal, but that he spoke with you for a bit about other things and ended up considering you a friend. I thought that was really cool.

Said he also got to jump in your pool after the work was done.

Awesome, glad to hear you had it taken care of and with someone who knows what they are doing. I think he scored close to 100 on his first (and subsequently only) time taking his hvac contractors test. He is highly intelligent, studied and experienced in this trade. Myself, I might be taking the test a few times.

I have seen refrigerant come out green and have the visocity of Jell-O. If a vaccum was not pulled at time of install and let's assume the old condenser was a burn out than what happens when electricity meets refrigerant is an acid is formed, contaminated. If the lineset was not nitrogen flushed and a vacuum pulled at time of next condenser/system change than the acid from the old unit meets the new refrigerant ( if they used new refrigerant) and thus contamination is the result.

As well as what Marty said, moisture is a contamination and again, can only be removed by way of vacuum.

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Old 08-02-2011, 08:34 AM   #62
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Doc it was you who got me in touch with John M.

Thank you.

Yea....he spent 6-7 days here cooking in my attic! I helped when I was here. The pool thing was cool.

One of the points that John made was the HVAC biz is unique in the large amount of expensive specialized equipment an installer needs to have....

I had a not so pleasant conversation with the guy/company who first attempted to install the new unit/system in my attic. Suffice to say his guy had shown up in a small pickup with a Crescent wench and Channel locks vs John M. who drives a huge van to the site that is stuffed full of tools and equipment!


John being hot!
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Old 08-02-2011, 10:34 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by krrgyy View Post
Doc it was you who got me in touch with John M.

Thank you.

Yea....he spent 6-7 days here cooking in my attic! I helped when I was here. The pool thing was cool.

One of the points that John made was the HVAC biz is unique in the large amount of expensive specialized equipment an installer needs to have....

I had a not so pleasant conversation with the guy/company who first attempted to install the new unit/system in my attic. Suffice to say his guy had shown up in a small pickup with a Crescent wench and Channel locks vs John M. who drives a huge van to the site that is stuffed full of tools and equipment!


John being hot!
Wow, I need to change my shirt (that attic was an oven)...

The home-owner (poster) took endless pics of myself and the work... And I have not seen most of them yet... this should be interesting...

Ya'll have a GREAT one!

GA
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Old 08-02-2011, 11:00 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krrgyy View Post
Due to this site I was able to locate an local expert and both systems rebuilt and work fantastic. I will speak and post pictures later about success.

I have 2 questions-
1) 4 ton 6 year old unit...the txv valve sensing bulb was installed upside down...(now corrected) Is this a big deal?

2) The systems (brand new unit and 6 year old unit) I was informed had "contaminated" refrigerant. Previous installer says this is impossible and that they have never heard of such a thing. Is it possible and with poor quality install is it likely?

THX
Not trying to start an argument or call anyone out... just my $0.02 here:

Question #1: Yes, IMO it does. Here is the reason:

The 'bulb' of a TXV valve is attached to a tube, then a diaphragm. The bulb is mounted on the return (suction) line from the coil. The reason for this arrangement (bulb, valve, and where the bulb is mounted) is to maintain the temp of the coil. Inside the bulb/tube/diaphragm area is a given amount of the SAME refrigerant as in the system. As the temp of the coil rises (as sensed by the bulb on the return (suction) line from the coil)... the refrigerant expands... thus pressing on the diaphragm in the valve. This 'modulating' keeps the temp in the coil constant in different conditions (higher air temp, higher humidity, etc).

Why mount the bulb just so? Good question. Some of the refrigerant is liquid... and according to the TXV manufacturers (have been to a few seminars on this); the liquid should stay in the bulb. So mounting the bulb in the correct way keeps the liquid refrigerant in the bulb.

As to whether a TXV works better with the bulb mounted properly... IMO do some googling at the websites for Sporlan, Parker, Emerson, etc... they all make TXV valves... and one can learn a wealth of working knowledge there.

Again, not arguing with anyone, just adding my $0.02 here...
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Old 08-02-2011, 11:03 AM   #65
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Hey there, Big Ga! That attic looks like Winter compared to here.

Stick around this site, there's many people you could help and I'm sure these guys would appreciate the expertise of another hvac tech. REP and beenthere are here as well.

Good work, my friend!
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Old 08-02-2011, 11:07 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yuri View Post
......
2) The systems (brand new unit and 6 year old unit) I was informed had "contaminated" refrigerant. Previous installer says this is impossible and that they have never heard of such a thing. Is it possible and with poor quality install is it likely?Absolutely YES. Hackers will have removed dirty freon from old systems and re-use it and have leftover dirty oil from other units in their hoses and add it to yours. The real dumb azzes will also add air to your system if they don't know how to purge their hoses properly and the list goes on an on and on.
If I may, I would like to add something to this:

When brazing... ALWAYS flow N2 through the lines. The oxidation of the copper line when brazing makes little flakes (yeah, inside the line)... which when mixed with oil and moisture, can accelerate the creation of the acid noted above.

Clean-le-ness when working with the refrigerant loop (while it is time consuming and tedious... thus expensive to do), is IMO one of the best ways to insure a LONG life from equipment.
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Old 08-02-2011, 11:12 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by Doc Holliday View Post
Hey there, Big Ga! That attic looks like Winter compared to here.

Stick around this site, there's many people you could help and I'm sure these guys would appreciate the expertise of another hvac tech. REP and beenthere are here as well.

Good work, my friend!
Hey Doc...

Yes, I know well how HOT the attics are in your area... Lived down there for the better part of my life... No, I do not miss the heat... LOL

Since they started the AOP thingy at the other place... I am not in the public are much anymore. This site looks like fun.

Question on this forum: I received a PM saying 'welcome... yada, yada... However it also said I cannot PM for a while as a new member... how long until I get to PM? THX!

Probably need to send a note to the administrator and have them check out my screen name at the other place...
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Old 08-02-2011, 11:18 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GA-HVAC-Tech View Post
Hey Doc...

Yes, I know well how HOT the attics are in your area... Lived down there for the better part of my life... No, I do not miss the heat... LOL

Since they started the AOP thingy at the other place... I am not in the public are much anymore. This site looks like fun.

Question on this forum: I received a PM saying 'welcome... yada, yada... However it also said I cannot PM for a while as a new member... how long until I get to PM? THX!

Probably need to send a note to the administrator and have them check out my screen name at the other place...

This site is awesome. You can freely help people in need and they really appreciate it. It's a good feeling. Plus we all talk about technical applications as well amongst each other so it's kind of like a technical forum amongst the pro's, but in the presense of anyone interested.

And if you scroll around, there's automotive, elecronics, an off topic to just chit chat about whatever, electrical, plumbing, you name it.

I didn't know anything about the pm's but beenthere is a moderator here (as well as there) so he can help you. Hopefully he'll see this and say something.
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Old 08-02-2011, 12:23 PM   #69
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10-15 posts B4 you can PM I believe unless they changed it. Welcome GA.

I know all about the TX bulb mounting but our poor poster has had such a bad time with his hacker installer I wanted him to feel like nothing got damaged so he can rest easy. It needs to be mounted properly but will have poorer control of the superheat the way it was but not bad enough to damage the compressor or flood the coil. I just finished replacing a 25 yr old 7-8 SEER coil on a new 13 SEER unit that some hacker left in along with a grossly undersized 1/4" capillary tube type liquid line. To add insult to injury he ripped off this elderly lady for $400 to add freon the next yr because the coil he did not replace or know how to was leaking. Said that an evap coil was not available but YES 13 SEER R22 coils are available. Karma will get him and he will fall of a ladder eventually.
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Last edited by yuri; 08-02-2011 at 12:32 PM.
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Old 08-02-2011, 01:13 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krrgyy View Post
Technow...don't no who you are or what u do but I find these internet sites to be the best thing to happen in a long time even for old schoolers like.

You know nothing about me or my situation but u can say its "buyers remorse"...."lowest bidder"....yur entitled to yur opinion but in my case these are far from true and accurate....if u care.

I will not go into my situation with my HVAC.

When I hire work/jobs to be performed I make it CRYSTAL clear that money is not the issue....proper work performed with industry standard protocols is all I expect. If they need more money for problems fine...I will happily pay....just get it right.

I take full responsibility for who I hired...it was a mistake. Instead of bashing me...a customer, why don't you offer advice or help.

I may have "Galled' you but your post, IMHO is very arrogant...

..."got what I paid for"....excuse me my new HVAC system does not work...it is falling apart, the work is not even shoddy its is total crap that I or someone else will completely tear out and redo...u want to help
Quote:
Originally Posted by GA-HVAC-Tech View Post
Wow, I need to change my shirt (that attic was an oven)...

The home-owner (poster) took endless pics of myself and the work... And I have not seen most of them yet... this should be interesting...

Ya'll have a GREAT one!

GA

Excellent.....you actually did hire a good contractor to fix it!!! I know GA from another site......
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Old 08-02-2011, 01:51 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yuri View Post
10-15 posts B4 you can PM I believe unless they changed it. Welcome GA.

I know all about the TX bulb mounting but our poor poster has had such a bad time with his hacker installer I wanted him to feel like nothing got damaged so he can rest easy. It needs to be mounted properly but will have poorer control of the superheat the way it was but not bad enough to damage the compressor or flood the coil. I just finished replacing a 25 yr old 7-8 SEER coil on a new 13 SEER unit that some hacker left in along with a grossly undersized 1/4" capillary tube type liquid line. To add insult to injury he ripped off this elderly lady for $400 to add freon the next yr because the coil he did not replace or know how to was leaking. Said that an evap coil was not available but YES 13 SEER R22 coils are available. Karma will get him and he will fall of a ladder eventually.
Thankfully, the pump (compressor) was not damaged... could have been.

I spent the better part of 2 weeks at the poster's home... carefully rebuilding two systems (it was over the 4th weekend... time was kinda split).

The TXV bulb was mounted so the line exited down... kinda defeats the purpose IMO. After cleaning the system inside and out... an acid test, a P/T test (juice was off temp), an N2 flushing and a triple evac... charged with fresh new R-22... Charged to proper SC, and the SH was right on the $$$.

I think the HO is going to post some pics of the work done... He took a bunch of shots... be interesting to see how ugly I look online...

Last edited by GA-HVAC-Tech; 08-02-2011 at 02:03 PM.
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Old 08-02-2011, 05:47 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yuri View Post
10-15 posts B4 you can PM I believe unless they changed it. Welcome GA.

I know all about the TX bulb mounting but our poor poster has had such a bad time with his hacker installer I wanted him to feel like nothing got damaged so he can rest easy. It needs to be mounted properly but will have poorer control of the superheat the way it was but not bad enough to damage the compressor or flood the coil. I just finished replacing a 25 yr old 7-8 SEER coil on a new 13 SEER unit that some hacker left in along with a grossly undersized 1/4" capillary tube type liquid line. To add insult to injury he ripped off this elderly lady for $400 to add freon the next yr because the coil he did not replace or know how to was leaking. Said that an evap coil was not available but YES 13 SEER R22 coils are available. Karma will get him and he will fall of a ladder eventually.
"It's nice to know kind hearted people like you who treat people fair, I don't do much now but when I was running service and installing my thoughts were always on the best job I could do and didn't think about the bill until all the tools were in the truck and I was sitting there going over things". Keep it up Yuri .
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Old 08-02-2011, 08:06 PM   #73
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Figured this was as good a place as any to post before and after. Unfortunately, the installer was from my company. I went out about two weeks ago and 'killed' the evaporator coil, it was leaking.

I got a call about it yesterday saying it was doing the same thing as the old evaporator coil so I went out today (on my day off no doubt and in flip flops ) to check it out. This is what I found:

Duct board tranny blown apart.


Main drain line unsulated and the male ninety not thoroughly screwed into the evap coil. Needless to say it was leaking, water marks on a closet ceiling. Also the txv bulb was exposed, uninsulated.






And of course the kid left the old drain pan and other assorted trash up there. Made me want to strangle him and I still just might.


Note that the drain pan was not strapped down and the installer used the same old 'holed' strap to hang the evaporator coil.
Not sure you can see that in those pics but here's what it looked like after. And I gave and installed for the lady a free drain pan float switch for her troubles. She was luckily very cool with me, told my boss I was "an excellent tech." That was nice of her.



Drain pan strapped down on both ends, float switches wired in series and the wires tied down, out of the way. I re-hung the evaporator with up to code straight no hole metal strap and lifted the coil a slight bit, it was hanging too far down on the drain side, pitched too much.




And used Carlisle Hardcast tape and a lot of it on the underneath of the tranny, where it had blown apart.


Last edited by Doc Holliday; 08-02-2011 at 08:09 PM.
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Old 08-04-2011, 06:51 PM   #74
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I see this thread perked up a little.....
FWIW....GA-HVAC is/was so good that I call him my HVAC SAVANT...

Thanks for the superb work John!

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