Forums | Home Repair | Home Improvement | Painting | Interior Decorating | Remodeling | Landscaping


Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > HVAC

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 10-16-2013, 06:02 PM   #1
*
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Fort Wayne, Indiana
Posts: 250
Share |
Default

I'm going to keep my radiant heat.


Hi all,

The last year or so I've made several posts about my 1968 all-electric home in NE Indiana.

Right now my electric bill is $240 a month (averaged) and I heat and cool 2500 sq feet.

I've been considering following the lead of many neighbors and switching to gas forced air, but I'm not going to do this, and here is why:

1. The payback for the difference in efficiency would be almost 40 years.

2. The reliability of all-electric is as close to 'forever' as you can get

3. The chinese and other manufacturers have now introduced new crystal-radiant technology that is 40% more efficient than old systems, with output efficiency as close to 100% as can be measured.

So, I'm upgrading to programmable thermostats ($21 each from china direct via alibaba), and putting in supplemental crystal panels in rooms that receive the most use.

I'm figuring I can drop my monthly to about $200 - and I don't think electric radiant heat units will ever do anything but get cheaper and cheaper.

I'd like to hear your thoughts on this - am I being an over-optimistic fool, or a sage whos wisdom exceeds his years?
imautoparts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2013, 06:50 PM   #2
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 147
Default

I'm going to keep my radiant heat.


I thought all electric resistance heat was as close to 100% efficient as could be measured.
taxmantoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2013, 07:06 PM   #3
AKA HVACTECHFW
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: NE Indiana
Posts: 2,313
Blog Entries: 1
Default

I'm going to keep my radiant heat.


Quote:
Right now my electric bill is $240 a month (averaged) and I heat and cool 2500 sq feet.
WOW, that is ridiculous energy consumption!

Current home: >1 y/o 3100 sqft. heat pump with gas forced air backup, elec WH, gas dryer, at least 3 PC's running 24/7... AVG/MO: Elect = $120 Gas = $45

Previous home: 5 y/o 1300 sqft. Heat pump with gas forced air backup, elec WH, gas dryer, at least 3 pc's running 24/7... AVG/MO: Elect = $90 Gas = $20

I think, (I have not seen your home and how it is laid out) you should talk to some contractors and see what is possible for HVAC upgrades and or energy conservation (insulation and envelope sealing)
__________________
IT IS WHAT IT IS
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
hvactech126 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2013, 07:33 PM   #4
*
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Fort Wayne, Indiana
Posts: 250
Default

I'm going to keep my radiant heat.


(quote)WOW, that is ridiculous energy consumption!

Current home: >1 y/o 3100 sqft. heat pump with gas forced air backup, elec WH, gas dryer, at least 3 PC's running 24/7... AVG/MO: Elect = $120 Gas = $45(/quote)

I agree, I'm paying a chunk. But you are paying almost $175. The cost for conversion to GFA (after 4 quotes) will be between $9900 and $14,000.

Divide that $75 a month savings into it and you have more years than I will be alive.

Meanwhile, the Chinese, the Europeans and others are constantly looking for better ways to generate heat with wind, solar and just plain electricity from the wall.

I have nothing to lose by staying radiant, and I believe that plenty of efficiency gains will follow my updating the existing system. Not to mention the fact that maintenance on a well-designed radiant and baseboard system is virtually $0 per year - my system is over 40 years old and functions flawlessly. I've had one wire break due to settling - and how many times in that period have my neighbors had to replace their furnaces? At least twice.
imautoparts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2013, 07:46 PM   #5
AKA HVACTECHFW
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: NE Indiana
Posts: 2,313
Blog Entries: 1
Default

I'm going to keep my radiant heat.


I understand where you are coming from.... there are many homes here in FW that are still all electric utilizing ceiling heat. How do you currently cool your home? Have you looked into ductless split systems and staying all electric? That could possibly be a better payback.
__________________
IT IS WHAT IT IS
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
hvactech126 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2013, 08:01 PM   #6
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Ontario
Posts: 726
Default

I'm going to keep my radiant heat.


Quote:
Originally Posted by taxmantoo View Post
I thought all electric resistance heat was as close to 100% efficient as could be measured.
That is correct.
SPS-1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2013, 08:57 PM   #7
*
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Fort Wayne, Indiana
Posts: 250
Default

I'm going to keep my radiant heat.


The losses in my installation are due to the entire radiant grid being sandwiched between two layers of drywall on the ceilings. During that era they worried the most about thermal mass and preventing overheats - so they wrapped the ceiling wires up like mummies.

The new 'radiant crystal' technology addresses that by being a simple standalone unit, they are as easy to hang as a picture frame. They only reach around 175 degrees, and all the electricity is radiated out at very specific frequencies to warm the people and objects in the room, but not the air.
imautoparts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2013, 04:08 AM   #8
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Eighty Four, Pa.15330
Posts: 1,166
Default

I'm going to keep my radiant heat.


Investigate using mini-split heat pumps.
bobelectric is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2013, 05:11 AM   #9
An old Tradesmen
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: PA
Posts: 23,459
Default

I'm going to keep my radiant heat.


Quote:
Originally Posted by imautoparts View Post
The losses in my installation are due to the entire radiant grid being sandwiched between two layers of drywall on the ceilings. During that era they worried the most about thermal mass and preventing overheats - so they wrapped the ceiling wires up like mummies.

The new 'radiant crystal' technology addresses that by being a simple standalone unit, they are as easy to hang as a picture frame. They only reach around 175 degrees, and all the electricity is radiated out at very specific frequencies to warm the people and objects in the room, but not the air.
Radiant ceiling heat is a very comfortable heat. Also fairly inefficient, due to the high radiant mass required to heat the room/people/objects.

Is that 240 a month to heat the entire house to comfort level, or just selective rooms.

You may want to find out if your local POCO is contemplating going to time of use rates.
__________________
When posting in certain forums, knowing your location will help others give better feedback/advice/solutions to your questions.
beenthere is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2013, 06:35 AM   #10
AKA HVACTECHFW
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: NE Indiana
Posts: 2,313
Blog Entries: 1
Default

I'm going to keep my radiant heat.


That radiant crystal technology is nothing more than infrared heating... You will not like it compared to your current ceiling heat.
__________________
IT IS WHAT IT IS
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
hvactech126 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2013, 08:18 AM   #11
*
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Fort Wayne, Indiana
Posts: 250
Default

I'm going to keep my radiant heat.


Quote:
Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
Is that 240 a month to heat the entire house to comfort level, or just selective rooms.

.

The time of use thing is worth checking on.

As far as the 240 a month, that is with full-time AC in the summer when hot and heat in the winter, plus an air compressor, a freezer, a refrigerator, a double oven, an electric grill on the porch and two gigantic electric water heaters (one of which is original to the house).

In 1968 the house was a 'reddy kilowatt' show home, it is quite well insulated but I'[m sure the windows could use updating - although it is not extremely drafty. The original storms (vinyl/aluminum) are still on the home and they are in good shape.

I'm going to take the $12,000 budget for putting in gas heat and updating my double oven, my electric range and perhaps both water heaters with modern units.

I'm also thinking of installing new windows on the 'front' (the North side) of the house - I imagine that will have a pretty solid impact on my heat bills.
imautoparts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2013, 02:23 PM   #12
An old Tradesmen
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: PA
Posts: 23,459
Default

I'm going to keep my radiant heat.


So your on a budget of 240 a month. $2880.00 a year?
__________________
When posting in certain forums, knowing your location will help others give better feedback/advice/solutions to your questions.
beenthere is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2013, 04:18 PM   #13
*
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Fort Wayne, Indiana
Posts: 250
Default

I'm going to keep my radiant heat.


Quote:
Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
So your on a budget of 240 a month. $2880.00 a year?

That's right. My estimated savings with new windows and gas heat come in at $65 - $75 per month.
imautoparts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2013, 04:23 PM   #14
An old Tradesmen
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: PA
Posts: 23,459
Default

I'm going to keep my radiant heat.


The gas heat alone would probably be 75 a month.
__________________
When posting in certain forums, knowing your location will help others give better feedback/advice/solutions to your questions.
beenthere is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to beenthere For This Useful Post:
hvactech126 (10-17-2013)
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
VisionPRO Setup Functions & Heat Pump infoskr HVAC 34 11-20-2013 04:24 PM
Radiant Heat in a Detached Garage jmorganix HVAC 3 02-08-2012 06:06 PM
uneven heat: testing ceiling radiant heat /finding cables/fix cables martinradiant Electrical 1 10-03-2010 08:22 PM
Replace forced air heat vent with radiant floor malfunction HVAC 9 02-05-2009 12:01 PM
Radiant heat question tpagel HVAC 4 05-21-2008 04:57 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.