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Old 02-02-2011, 07:51 PM   #16
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Hydronic Floor Heating ??'s


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Originally Posted by Bondo View Post
Ayuh,... I ain't no Hvac expert, but I hear running the Dw through the heating pipe sets up some nasty bacterial issues...
I can't tell ya about the codes, but it makes sense to Me that it's outa code...

Repeatedly heated, 'n cooled water tends to Stink, I would imagine it wouldn't taste to good either...
Even a bit of a splash in the face, in the shower would suck...

For what your doing, Another water heater, Not tied to the Dhw would work..
Course, then ya got 2 heating units...
Yet once again, I'm not defending this company, but the concept seems feasible. As for stagnent/re-heated water, as I understand it, the incoming cold water circulates through the entire system, thus replacing existing water, each time potable is demanded, both in summer and winter.

Rather than an additional heating unit, it's my understanding a single heating unit can do both, even separating heat from potable via a heat exchanger.

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Old 02-02-2011, 08:14 PM   #17
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Hydronic Floor Heating ??'s


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It would be wise to have them "go to bat" before you send funds.

I have no intentions of spending any money before a system design is approved by local coding.

If you buy one, keep my number I redesign a lot of them.
I'm simply using this site to educate myself by interacting with individuals who have more training and experience with a related field. I'm not here to solicit a contractor.....
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Old 02-02-2011, 08:29 PM   #18
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What's with all the Ayuh's?
I'm not sure what that means either?? Making assumptions generally gets me in trouble though.
But it does seem this topic is carrying some animosity. Both here and on the net in general. I do appreciate the responses. I feel I can learn from most, if not all of them. Actually, after doing a general search at this site, and running into several hydronic related postings going unanswered, I'm glad for any response.

Regards,
Jules
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Old 02-03-2011, 01:39 AM   #19
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Hydronic Floor Heating ??'s


Hi guys..

If you have to use a water heater, and on small applications a water heater works well, use a plate exchanger to transition from domestic hot water to the heating system. Or if you aren't using an existing heater, buy a heater set up to do a radiant system. They often have separate taps for the heating and domestic.

Remember, tubing is cheap.. Use a lot of it..

:-) Ken

The K.C. Ament CO. Inc.
Colorado Springs

Last edited by KCA; 02-03-2011 at 02:35 AM.
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Old 02-03-2011, 07:06 AM   #20
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....... Or if you aren't using an existing heater, buy a heater set up to do a radiant system. They often have separate taps for the heating and domestic.
Thanks for the input Ken.
So, in a sense, it has a built in heat exchanger directly in the unit? Makes sense. I'm surprised, in all my interactions, and internet searches, I've not come across this product. Care to offer up a particular unit that you've used, or would recommend?

Regards,
Jules
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Old 02-03-2011, 08:37 AM   #21
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Here is an article on water heaters for radiant..

http://www.jlconline.com/cgi-local/v...180a32100a05d4

But never use a water heater for both radiant & domestic without separation. Even if your local authority lets you.. You now know better.

:-) Ken
The K.C. Ament Co., Inc.

Last edited by KCA; 02-03-2011 at 08:41 AM.
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Old 02-03-2011, 03:57 PM   #22
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Here is an article on water heaters for radiant..

http://www.jlconline.com/cgi-local/v...180a32100a05d4

But never use a water heater for both radiant & domestic without separation. Even if your local authority lets you.. You now know better.

:-) Ken
The K.C. Ament Co., Inc.
Great site. Thanks! I'm not sure I referenced what you were talking about, but this is what I found.

http://www.jlconline.com/cgi-bin/jlc.../View/9811usin

Informative writeup. It appears it was written in 1998. Somewhat progressive, in my opinion, for the time. Though, he shows an open-direct system there as an option.
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Old 02-03-2011, 05:46 PM   #23
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DIYers are never here to solicit a contractor, my advice is free.

Beyond the obvious health risk, system component failure is a common problem since accepted hydronic design practice excludes the use of potable water for space heating.

But hey, I'm sure there are smarter people than me in here.
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Old 02-03-2011, 06:13 PM   #24
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What about going with a navien unit, I looked at the cost to install my self was 1500, gives you domestic hot water and heating options, plus it'll last longer then the tank will.
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Old 02-03-2011, 06:20 PM   #25
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Any of the tankless systems work well with radiant floor heating systems. OK with baseboard if there isn't much of it..

Just invent something.. As long as the numbers work the system should work..

I have a great passion for hydronics!!

:-) Ken
The K.C. Ament CO., Inc.
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Old 02-03-2011, 07:38 PM   #26
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Beyond the obvious health risk, system component failure is a common problem since accepted hydronic design practice excludes the use of potable water for space heating.

The health risk isn't obvious to me. The use of timed circulations and/or use of incoming "new" water ran through the system before entering the heater should elliminate "stagnation" ?? And it seems higher grade components are used.

I have taken your and others advise, here and elsewhere, regarding the risk of contaminants/bacteria. That being said, I'm curious as to how the company we've been discussing, and others are successfully installing open-direct systems without fallback?? I did a background/BBB check on the company in question, and they have only one complaint listed (return/exchange related) which was settled, and have an A+ rating, dating back to 1992.

I'm curious to learn how many open-direct systems they have installed, coded or not, and how long it's been since their first. I plan to ask this question next I speak with them.

But hey, I'm sure there are smarter people than me in here.
I'm the first to admit I'm not the brightest crayon in the box......
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Old 02-03-2011, 07:45 PM   #27
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What about going with a navien unit, I looked at the cost to install my self was 1500, gives you domestic hot water and heating options, plus it'll last longer then the tank will.
I'm the first to admit I know almost nothing about tankless systems. What I have learned though is, the use of tankless systems with full house radiant systems is typically frowned upon. Almost as much as open-direct systems

I did look the website over, and plan to study it some more.

Thanks for your interest.
Jules
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Old 02-03-2011, 08:07 PM   #28
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Hydronic Floor Heating ??'s


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Just invent something.. As long as the numbers work the system should work..

I have a great passion for hydronics!!

:-) Ken
The K.C. Ament CO., Inc.
Colorado Springs
I'm quickly developing a passion for it. My closest friend and I have been talking about it for years. I now have the opportunity to incorporate it into a home I'm rehabbing for my family. Believe me when I say, I'm taking the "bacteria" issue seriously.
When my friend learned of my plans, he purchased the book, "Modern Hydronic Heating" by J Siegenthaler for me. Said it was the least he could do since I was to be the guinea pig. I've since learned, this is pretty much the bible on the subject. A love/hate sort of read, in my opinion........
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Old 02-03-2011, 08:57 PM   #29
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That's a great book.. So are books by Dan Holahan.. Heatinghelp.com

Check out "Pumping away" or "Primary secondary piping" Easy reads and you learn something too..
There's also a chat area there called "the wall" check it out..

Tubing is cheap so use a lot!

:-) Ken
The K. C. Ament CO., Inc.
Colorado Springs
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Old 02-04-2011, 11:08 AM   #30
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So are books by Dan Holahan.. Heatinghelp.com

Check out "Pumping away" or "Primary secondary piping" Easy reads and you learn something too..
I read some reviews. Well recieved.
Do either of the books touch on the use of water heaters in systems?

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