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Old 02-03-2010, 10:19 PM   #31
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HP - Compressor Failure 2x


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I understand sheetmetal (soild) ducts are better, less resistance, etc...but they are also harder to install in some situations.
In reality, sheet metal isn't better.
It flows more air per sq inch of cross section.

It also transfers sound from one area to the other easier.
Requires more time to install.
More expensive to install in unconditioned spaces.


I started out as a tin knocker.

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Old 02-07-2010, 10:16 AM   #32
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HP - Compressor Failure 2x


The thermostat that they have is a White Rodgers 1FA911. It is the non programmable version.

The tech thinks the defrost control board is bad on the HP....thereby causing the Eheat to energize. I believe his plan is to replace it and see if that fixes the issue.

In order to rule out the t-stat being the culprit, I am thinking of having Dad remove the wire from the E terminal...I realize this has nothing to do with the defrost cycle energizing the E-heat as it is wired inside the AH.

I had him remove W2 to make sure that it was wired properly to stage 2 HP and not E-heat. No results yet.

http://www.white-rodgers.com/wrdhom/..._06_pg0188.pdf

http://www.white-rodgers.com/wrdhom/.../0037-6499.pdf

http://www.white-rodgers.com/wrdhom/...p.htm#1F79-111
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Last edited by AndrewF; 02-07-2010 at 10:19 AM.
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Old 02-07-2010, 10:37 AM   #33
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HP - Compressor Failure 2x


Removing the wire on W2 will test the thermostat.

The tech should also check to see if any of the wires are shorting and bringing on the aux heat.
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Old 02-08-2010, 10:12 AM   #34
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HP - Compressor Failure 2x


The PRO says the compressor is bad and needs to be replaced...it should be under the manufacture warranty.

What all should the PRO do as part of the compressor replacement? Considering this is now the 3rd compressor, something else has to be wrong.
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Old 02-08-2010, 04:32 PM   #35
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HP - Compressor Failure 2x


What type of failure it is. Electrical or mechanical.

He needs to determine what is causing the compressor failures.

And offer corrections to correct the real problem.

Along with replacing the contactor, run cap, liquid line filter drier. And use new refrigerant.

What did he say is wrong with the compressor?
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Old 02-08-2010, 04:36 PM   #36
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HP - Compressor Failure 2x


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What type of failure it is. Electrical or mechanical.

He needs to determine what is causing the compressor failures.

And offer corrections to correct the real problem.

Along with replacing the contactor, run cap, liquid line filter drier. And use new refrigerant.

What did he say is wrong with the compressor?
Just that it was bad.

It runs for a few minutes, "overheats" goes into lockout until it cools down and wont re-energize until the current call for heat ends, and a new call is made.

Said the line pressure readings were fine.
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Old 02-08-2010, 04:52 PM   #37
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HP - Compressor Failure 2x


Over heating compressor is usually low on charge, txv not working correctly or a capacitor not having the right mfd reading. Almost always a over heating compressor is a symptom rather then the cause of the problem. Once the windings open on thermal limit it very well could take untill the next cycle for them to cool off and close again.
Post any information he put on the service ticket. Pressures, ambient temp, capacitor called for and actual reading, compressor ohm readings ect.
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Old 02-08-2010, 05:04 PM   #38
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HP - Compressor Failure 2x


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Just that it was bad.

It runs for a few minutes, "overheats" goes into lockout until it cools down and wont re-energize until the current call for heat ends, and a new call is made.

Said the line pressure readings were fine.
Sounds like they could be condemning the compressor when its ok. But something else is causing it to over heat.

Without knowing the readings(pressures, line temps ambient temps), can't say for sure from here. But it wouldn't be the first time a compressor was condemned because of another problem.

A dirty indoor coil can cause the problem. Along with an over charge.

Did they have it worked on this past summer, spring or fall.
And if so, did someone add charge to the system. Thats often done when a unit has a dirty indoor coil. And can reak havaoc in the heat mode later.
Including causing damage to the compressor.
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Old 02-08-2010, 08:27 PM   #39
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HP - Compressor Failure 2x


The last it was worked on was when it was installed in January 2008. They replaced the 2nd compressor (actually the whole outdoor unit) in February, 2008.

If there is not enough air flow (i believe we ruled this out), would it cause the compressor to overheat?

When the compressor first comes on, the suction line does get extremely hot.
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Old 02-09-2010, 12:59 AM   #40
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Air flow can cause this problem. It damages the compressor over a period of time.

How hot is the small line during this run time.

So can a low charge.
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Old 02-16-2010, 10:12 AM   #41
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HP - Compressor Failure 2x


The regional manufacture technician and the original installer came out today.

1) Air flow was measured at 1350 CFM with HP in operation. (It is variable speed)
2) The system was several lbs low of refrigerant, causing the compressor to lock out.

They changed a jumper fro the variable speed blower to run at higher RPM in HP mode.

With the outdoor temp at 22, the indoor supply temp was 106 in HP only mode.

I am curious if it was installed with low refrigerant, or if it has a small leak somewhere. They are supposed to come back out I think in a month or two and check the pressure again.

I find it amusing that the one company that came out and said the compressor was failed, was wrong.
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Old 02-16-2010, 02:39 PM   #42
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The regional manufacture technician and the original installer came out today.

1) Air flow was measured at 1350 CFM with HP in operation. (It is variable speed)

A bit low for a 5 ton unit.

2) The system was several lbs low of refrigerant, causing the compressor to lock out.

How can they know if its charged right with that low air flow.

They changed a jumper fro the variable speed blower to run at higher RPM in HP mode.

Is the system louder now at the registers?

With the outdoor temp at 22, the indoor supply temp was 106 in HP only mode.

I am curious if it was installed with low refrigerant, or if it has a small leak somewhere. They are supposed to come back out I think in a month or two and check the pressure again.

Its possible that it wasn't charged right when the compressor was changed out, because of that low air flow. More more likely that you have a leak.

I find it amusing that the one company that came out and said the compressor was failed, was wrong.
Lots of guys just condemn compressors because they don't understand how safeties work.

Your parents have more troubles then they know with that system.
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Old 02-16-2010, 04:20 PM   #43
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HP - Compressor Failure 2x


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Lots of guys just condemn compressors because they don't understand how safeties work.

Your parents have more troubles then they know with that system.
In answer to your questions.

Dad said they made adjustments to the airflow, then went outside and checked the charge.

He said there is a big noticeable difference at any of the registers on feeling the air moving. Before he had to be about 1' from the register, now he can stay standing and put his hand out and feel air flow.
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Old 02-16-2010, 04:28 PM   #44
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HP - Compressor Failure 2x


1350 still is not enough for a 5 ton heat pump.

How was your heating ill when your air flow was that low for your 5 ton heat pump?

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