Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > HVAC

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 12-10-2006, 08:36 PM   #16
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 729
Rewards Points: 500
Default

Hot Water Heating System Estimate Cost ?


Carrierman, look at this picture, this is the way the system is hooked up. So what the guy wants to do is eliminate the tee where the water returns attaches to the steam pipe. So I am back to square one, this is not going to be able to be done, beacause the system ins not going to be hooked up correctly In other words, he wants to plug up the equalizer pipe! He says that the steam coming out of the pipe is not letting the water go back into the boiler, I don't think I can take anymore of this........In other words heat wants to eliminate the vacuum breaker that you are talking about. I feel as if I am back to where I started from, but I trully appreciate all of your help. I am really pissed of at myself, this guys is in the the heating and airconditioning business for 10 years, and I thought he new his stuff, but I guess I am wrong. He was at it this morning from 7am to 2 pm, and the system is still the same, or should I say worse since he took it apart!
Attached Images
 


Last edited by helpless handyman; 12-10-2006 at 09:04 PM.
helpless handyman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2006, 09:06 PM   #17
Thoroughbred Mopar Man
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: South/East Kansas
Posts: 638
Rewards Points: 500
Default

Hot Water Heating System Estimate Cost ?


Hi helplesshandyman

How close in reality is your system to this?. What is shown in the picture would work but my God is there a ton of potential for problems. I was assuming that the radiators were two pipe systems. If the heating coils you have are small ones they will never be able to accomodate the condensate water with this system. The particular system you have here is for a convection radiator system only. If it is not too late can you go back into the heating coils and two pipe them?. If you can, you can leave your radiators hooked up like this but run a seperate return line for the smaller heat coils. Hope this makes sense to you. I didn't realize what you were working with, I now understand your frustration. Let me know if you can make the modifications I was talking about, I think we still have something to work with. Forgot to add this, the system in this picture requires alot of steam to overcome the weight of the condensate water. If there is any way possible to two pipe the whole system you will get twice the performance out of your boiler.

Good luck
Rusty

Last edited by #CARRIERMAN; 12-10-2006 at 09:10 PM. Reason: added information
#CARRIERMAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2006, 09:14 PM   #18
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 729
Rewards Points: 500
Default

Hot Water Heating System Estimate Cost ?


Carrierman, I will not put a penny more into this system and I mean it! I have a one pipe steam heat system, I am using radiators and heat elements. The heat elements I was told by the plumbing place as well as the place I bought them from that you put the valve on one side, plug the bottom of the other side, and a vent on the top. The small one in the bathroom doesn't make any noise and it gives steam out. The other three are 60 inc long, at least 5 times bigger than the one in the bathroom, and those are the problem ones. They get full of water, in other words the boiler is some how not letting the water in for some reason, and its not clogged we checked. I think I am throwing in the towel on this one, and going to tear everything out. I have lost $3000.00 and still have no heat!
helpless handyman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2006, 09:18 PM   #19
Thoroughbred Mopar Man
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: South/East Kansas
Posts: 638
Rewards Points: 500
Default

Hot Water Heating System Estimate Cost ?


Hi helplesshandyman

I cant blame you, we gave it a try. I just hate seeing good people throw money away. I was just trying to come up with a solution for you. Maybe we can tackle the next one. Sorry I was not able to help. Wait a minute. I reread your post, the steam line has to come into the bottom of the heating elements for the water to be able to return. If the steam is not coming in at the lowest point of the heating element the condensate cannot get out. Is this the problem with the elements?.

Good luck
Rusty

Last edited by #CARRIERMAN; 12-10-2006 at 09:22 PM. Reason: added information
#CARRIERMAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2006, 09:24 PM   #20
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 729
Rewards Points: 500
Default

Hot Water Heating System Estimate Cost ?


Beleive me you gave all you could, this guy wants to eliminate the tee on the equalizer part, and I have a feeling that going to blow the entire system up! The steam valve is at the lowest point of the heat elements, and the return is on the other end at the lowest point as well.

Last edited by helpless handyman; 12-10-2006 at 09:27 PM.
helpless handyman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2006, 09:29 PM   #21
Thoroughbred Mopar Man
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: South/East Kansas
Posts: 638
Rewards Points: 500
Default

Hot Water Heating System Estimate Cost ?


Hi helplesshandyman

For the system to work it has to be as pictured. If he remove things from it, it won't blow up but it will definatley not work at all. Like I said in the post before this one. I had to amend it, if you haven't read the ammended part, please do. Tell me if I am on the right path.

Rusty
#CARRIERMAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2006, 09:33 PM   #22
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 729
Rewards Points: 500
Default

Hot Water Heating System Estimate Cost ?


I read the amended part, and I answered it on the previous post. The heat elements all have the steam valve on the bottom of the heat elements, and they are all pitched back to the valve so that the water can go back to the return line.
helpless handyman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2006, 09:36 PM   #23
World famous jerk.
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: central PA
Posts: 440
Rewards Points: 250
Default

Hot Water Heating System Estimate Cost ?


That tee your guy proposes to remove is part of the Hartford loop. DO NOT REMOVE IT!! It is the only thing keeping a leak on the return side from draining the boiler. It was named the Hartford loop after the Hartford Insurance Company that first required it to keep boilers from exploding. I havn't been involved in this thread much, but I do sorta wonder if the boiler is even sized to produce enough steam for the amount of connected radiation.

Last edited by mdshunk; 12-10-2006 at 09:38 PM.
mdshunk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2006, 09:37 PM   #24
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 729
Rewards Points: 500
Default

Hot Water Heating System Estimate Cost ?


Thanks MDshunk, can you help me on this one? I only added where I took off, and I actually have one place where I didn't add and there was a radiator there as well.

Last edited by helpless handyman; 12-10-2006 at 09:42 PM.
helpless handyman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2006, 09:46 PM   #25
Thoroughbred Mopar Man
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: South/East Kansas
Posts: 638
Rewards Points: 500
Default

Hot Water Heating System Estimate Cost ?


Hi guys

That was my thought on the matter after helplesshandyman gave me the diagram. We don't see this system down in our area because it takes almost twice the lbs per hour to produce enough steam. Were kind of frugal down in this area. Md thanks for getting involved and helplesshandyman I am going to have to pass you off to Md. But I will be back for any future problems. Good luck guys.

Rusty
#CARRIERMAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2006, 09:53 PM   #26
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 729
Rewards Points: 500
Default

Hot Water Heating System Estimate Cost ?


Thanks Carrierman and Mdshunk, you guys do good things! Having to work all day in systems, and then take time to help others is a blessing, and hope you guys get rewarded for your kind work. I am going to try to get some sleep and see if Mdshunk can come up with something. Thanks again guys, you are all Awesome!!!
helpless handyman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2006, 10:16 PM   #27
World famous jerk.
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: central PA
Posts: 440
Rewards Points: 250
Default

Hot Water Heating System Estimate Cost ?


This sure sounds like a near boiler piping issue, and I'd sorta like to see some more pictures of the near boiler piping. Here's a few things I can say generally about proper near boiler piping for one pipe steam:
  • There needs to be at least a 24" rise from the boiler water level before it goes horizontal from the steam tapping.
  • The top of the tee at the Hartford loop needs to be exactly at the water level that you see in the sight glass.
Maybe I'll try to post a pic.
mdshunk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2006, 10:48 PM   #28
World famous jerk.
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: central PA
Posts: 440
Rewards Points: 250
Default

Hot Water Heating System Estimate Cost ?


Here's some scans from my Burnham book with the proper one-pipe steam details. That looks like a Burnham that you're dealing with there. The near boiler piping is very important with steam.


mdshunk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2006, 08:38 AM   #29
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 729
Rewards Points: 500
Default

Hot Water Heating System Estimate Cost ?


Thanks Mdshunk, I just called the guy and he is arguing with me that they are systems without the Hartford loop. My boiler is a Burhman, the picture shows the water return on the ground level, my boiler has it in the middle in the back. I bet this has to do with what you are stating, (piping by boiler)Mdshunk. All pipes are new, all radiators are new. My thing is that I purchashed the house in June, boiler was turned on and then shut off because a gas leak. Since I was gutting the house I never did start the boiler since I new the pipes had to be relocated due to change in floor plans. The gas leak was repaired and I have a receipt and also saw the new part installed. My water returns runs along a half wall in the basement, I would say maybe about 4ft from the ground, then it goes down to the floor, I will try to draw something. I would of taken a picture but he removed the piping on the back of the boiler. Thanks for helping me out.
Attached Thumbnails
Hot Water Heating System Estimate Cost ?-wall.jpg  
helpless handyman is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Low hot water pressure crebive Plumbing 38 02-26-2013 12:26 AM
Water Purification System - Maintenance Qs cjcocn Plumbing 1 11-18-2008 07:31 AM
Debugging Hot Water Heating System when on Standby Power hwitten Electrical 4 12-15-2006 08:47 PM
Need some serious advise on heating system helpless handyman HVAC 26 12-07-2006 05:28 PM
Water level in boiler system Barefoot Brian HVAC 3 10-19-2006 01:11 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.