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-   -   Help!! Do I need a new boiler? (http://www.diychatroom.com/f17/help-do-i-need-new-boiler-28725/)

YourBroker 02-25-2007 03:33 PM

Help!! Do I need a new boiler?
 
Thanks for taking time to help!

My fuel oil supplier came to change gaskets on circulator last November.
The mechanic said there was no need to clean the boiler as the
combustion chamber was falling apart!
I thought this was strange because the same company had been cleaning this boiler for 35+ years with no mention of this before.
I took him at his word and have gotten 2 prices for a new boiler since.
Last night while taking photos for a no hot water problem which I posted on this forum,
I took the cover off to see how bad it was in there.
I saw nothing falling apart, just what looks to me to be a boiler needing cleaning!

Photos can be viewed @: http://good-times.webshots.com/album/557838585wZZxOV

? Am I not seeing something?

? The system is H.B. Smith boiler 1968 "Smith Pac 14",
White Rogers aquastat rebuilt by Sid Harveys, Model C3187R 843A30.
40 gal hot water storage tank which is heated by a .boiler coil
(coil replaced 5 years ago and there is no hard water problem in the house)
The house has 3 heating zones which are working properly.

The pump on the hot water tank is working, pumping water thru the coil, it turns on and off as it should.
Recently, the boiler stopped kicking on when the water tank pump comes on, .
and there is no hot water at any plumbing fixtures in the house.

The outflow hot water pipe coming off tank is hot to touch.

I heated the water tank up to 180 degrees by manually starting boiler while the water was pumping thru the coil (the aquastat is not kicking the boiler on).
Still do not have hot water anywhere in house.

This to me says cold water is not coming into coil to push hot out.

Could this be a bad mixing valve?

Is this the "T" shaped copper device on the cold supply to coil marked "3/4" with "125" under? See photos.
When I feel the cold supply pipe, it gradually gets warmer towards coil after passing
that device.

Could this be as simple as a bad mixing valve?

? Can I take it apart to clean or just replace inner parts?

? Should I trouble shoot the aquastat?

Thanks very much, in advance!

MgMopar 02-26-2007 08:13 PM

It's hard to tell by the photos and with the soot and build up on it. I don't see anything to me showing in the photos that chamber is falling apart. However it may be. I have seen cases were many service people over looked what one saw. In my opinion it would have to be cleaned some just to do a good inspection. If there are any holes or cracks any were threw the chamber it could cause carbon monoxide to escape out of it.
If your coil in and out of the water tank are getting hot and water outlet is hot I would also highly suspect the mixing valve. The valve you have pictured looks more like a flapper style check valve. The mixing valves I am familiar with have 3 pipes to them hot in, cold in, and mixed water out. Maybe another form member will be more familiar with you particular set up.

YourBroker 02-28-2007 01:35 PM

Update!
 
Found source of hot water problem shower valve!
When this thing started:
My plumber replaced the cartridge in Moen shower valve because of warm not hot water from that fixture only.
After replacing?. no hot water whole house!
Cartridge was from plumbing supply house.


Should the cartridge be replaced again?
Is there any reason to replace the whole valve, as the plumber said

This morning the boiler chamber was replaced (wet pack) and boiler cleaned.

While that was going on I asked about replacing shower valve.

This plumber thought I should replace the Balancing spool in the shower valve.
He said sometimes they don?t come out easily.
I took it out, it's small solid brass, don't see a reason to replace.

I also found the 2 other Moen fixtures in the house need help.

Should I just replace cartridges in other failing Moen fixtures?

Could this help with water pressure problem in house?

MgMopar 02-28-2007 04:21 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Moen makes a special tool for stubborn valve cartridges. A miss installed or bad cartage can mix the cold water with the hot, this can be tested by shutting of the hot water valve at the hot water heater if water pressure is still available at the fixtures in the home then the cold water is mixing in the supply. I really don't see this repair increasing the overall water pressure in the whole home though. One of the reasons many plumbers prefer moen is because the cartridge replacement is usually all that is needed to recondition the fixture. I have seen very few that this did not solve the problems. It is possible the fixture is corroded or scared in some way preventing the new cartridge from properly sealing on it causing your bypass leak to the hot supply.


Image is of a moen cartridge removal tool. This is a better (stronger) style then many times come with replacement cartrages.

45frank 03-05-2007 09:28 AM

You may just need a new Aquastat,
Replacing the combuston chamber is not very hard for a boiler tech, it's actually a good idea to have the boiler cleaned at the same time. From your pictures it doesn't look like it's been cleaned for a few years now.
Unless you are leaking water or somehow getting carbon monoxide in the house the boiler can be repaired much cheaper then a new one.
Combustion kids for that boiler are still available for under $100.00 i'm sure. The front of the boiler must be removed when cleaning anyway. So installing shouldn't cost no more then the parts. Removing the combustion chamber actually makes the cleaning job easier and he should be able to do a better job not worring about destroying the chamber.







Quote:

Originally Posted by YourBroker
Thanks for taking time to help!

My fuel oil supplier came to change gaskets on circulator last November.
The mechanic said there was no need to clean the boiler as the
combustion chamber was falling apart!
I thought this was strange because the same company had been cleaning this boiler for 35+ years with no mention of this before.
I took him at his word and have gotten 2 prices for a new boiler since.
Last night while taking photos for a no hot water problem which I posted on this forum,
I took the cover off to see how bad it was in there.
I saw nothing falling apart, just what looks to me to be a boiler needing cleaning!

Photos can be viewed @: http://good-times.webshots.com/album/557838585wZZxOV

? Am I not seeing something?

? The system is H.B. Smith boiler 1968 "Smith Pac 14",
White Rogers aquastat rebuilt by Sid Harveys, Model C3187R 843A30.
40 gal hot water storage tank which is heated by a .boiler coil
(coil replaced 5 years ago and there is no hard water problem in the house)
The house has 3 heating zones which are working properly.

The pump on the hot water tank is working, pumping water thru the coil, it turns on and off as it should.
Recently, the boiler stopped kicking on when the water tank pump comes on, .
and there is no hot water at any plumbing fixtures in the house.

The outflow hot water pipe coming off tank is hot to touch.

I heated the water tank up to 180 degrees by manually starting boiler while the water was pumping thru the coil (the aquastat is not kicking the boiler on).
Still do not have hot water anywhere in house.

This to me says cold water is not coming into coil to push hot out.

Could this be a bad mixing valve?

Is this the "T" shaped copper device on the cold supply to coil marked "3/4" with "125" under? See photos.
When I feel the cold supply pipe, it gradually gets warmer towards coil after passing
that device.

Could this be as simple as a bad mixing valve?

? Can I take it apart to clean or just replace inner parts?

? Should I trouble shoot the aquastat?

Thanks very much, in advance!



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