Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > HVAC

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 12-03-2007, 07:52 PM   #16
Member
 
HvacWiz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Northwest Ohio
Posts: 286
Share |
Default

HELP! Carrier Weathermaker Infinity Not Working!


Thought crossed my mind of a carrier furnace that i worked on a couple of years ago that was doing the same thing as you describe, where the inducer motor would run for 15-20 sec the shut down, as it turned out the secondary heat exchanger was plugged. The motor would shut down and give a "out of valid speed range fault" once the secondary was changed every thing was fine. Not saying this is your problem but it sounds awful familure. Heat ex@ seconday heat ex are under warranty form carrier labor usally is not, which is still alot cheaper than 1100$

HvacWiz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2007, 08:59 PM   #17
UAW SKILLED TRADES
 
Stubbie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kansas
Posts: 4,865
Default

HELP! Carrier Weathermaker Infinity Not Working!


Someone will have to explain to me why anyone would actually design a furnace that needed all the registers open in order to operate. That IMO is insane. Are we saying that if I shut off all the 2nd floor registers, not only is my furnace going to be damaged but it won't work either??
Now I'm not a HVAC professional by a long shot but that right there would be the end of my search for a carrier furnace.
I had a carrier weather maker 8000 installed along with a carrier central air in 1995. In the first two years I had constant issues with it... 2 control boards a blower motor whine to name a few (under warranty if that helps) .... in five years the problems grew and crept into my central air unit. But just to suffice and not go into the bloody details I now have an entire new system...this after being told in 2001 I had a 1000 dollar labor bill and still a broken carrier central air condensing unit. It was "my call" I remember the tech saying... do I want them to install a new condensing unit or keep trying to fix it. This being a 6 year old system. The carrier reps wouldn't give me the time of day. I opted for the new condensing unit. In two years it developed a leak and the compressor wouldnt start after they fixed that. I got one of those it's your call answers again from the same company I had fix it the last time which was who I purchased the system from. So I said.. yep.. it is my call. And sent them on their way. I removed the entire system (including the furnace) loaded it on my truck and placed it in their parking lot by the receiving door for them to do what they wanted with it. I recieved a bill for the labor turned that over to a lawyer I went out and retained (which cost me 500 bucks) and 3,000 if it went to claims court. Didn't care I was throughly pissed at that point. Never heard another word from them. Oh and by the way you should have seen the furnace installation what a debacle of workmanship. They needed a 4 inch gas line nipple so they could position my furnace correctly....nope they built this goofy sheetmetal plenum offset instead, wouldn't even consider changing it when asked to. My new system has been flawless since installed by a one man company, the installation was quite frankly some of the best workmanship I have ever seen.
Now having said all that I think Carrier most likely makes a fine furnace and a/c system and I'm not really all that upset with the company. though it sure would have been nice to have it least had my phone calls returned. I notice now there is no way for the homeowner to contact the company. Kinda like the airlines. I do believe my problems were poor quality parts and dealer installation issues, but the service sucked and was questionable at best. I will never understand this "we'll you need a whole new furnace" crap cause your system is old..how old is old...jeez and I said I would make this short....... My neighbor has a ruud the condensing fan went out... the tech she called in wanted 500 dollars to replace it...that after trying to get the gal to buy a new system after telling her it wasn't worth fixing. I think he said 3500 hundred for furnace and air. She sent him on his way after paying the 100 bucks for showing up. I replaced the motor for 60 bucks my cost at johnstone and reused the old fan blade. which the tech told me he wouldn't do.... he wanted a 100 bucks for a new one. Guess he didn't have a fan blade puller on his truck. that was 2002 and that system is still working just fine. So my point in all this is not to hammer carrier... but what happened to the professionals... guys... that could actually fix something??? And why all the bogus crap from these dealers and techs...? and workmanship in their installations? This is becoming a huge problem in several trades IMHO.

Last edited by Stubbie; 12-03-2007 at 09:49 PM.
Stubbie is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2007, 10:41 PM   #18
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Middle Tenn
Posts: 26
Send a message via Yahoo to mrkool
Default

HELP! Carrier Weathermaker Infinity Not Working!


"why anyone would actually design a furnace that needed all the registers open in order to operate"

Well, I don't believe any furnace is designed it that way, of course it's
common sense to leave most grilles open. I doubt that MaxPierre had
that many closed, the air noise will get your attention pretty soon.
Especially with an ECM motor, I know I have a 5 ton Amana split
in my house and even with all 20 grilles open, I still get/feel/hear
plenty of air coming out all grilles, his problem is b ad duct design
from the start.

Now, since I am a HVAC contractor/servicer/installer for almost 40 years
now, 30 of that with my own business and doing it by myself 80% of the time and having installed every brand that made it to tenn and some I had
to order from up north, I use to sell/install Heil/Tempstar/Comfortmaker,
now I sell/install Amana/Goodman, my nephew handles Carrier/Bryant,
one brother installs Am Standard/Trane, the others Lennoxand York,
so I believe I have most of them covered.

I still have several Whirlpool systems installed in 1980 still running today.
I removed a 40 year old noname unit that was working with the bottom rusted out, replaced it with a Coleman Heat Pump, the fella said it didn't
cool near as well as his old unit, what could I say, "You want me to put it back?"

But I have to say, of all the different systems I've installed/serviced
I hated the spine fin coils of Carrier/Bryant and Trane, maybe better
SEER, but no other company did that, thank goodness.

Now days, I replace more Carrier/Bryant than any other brand out there,
one reason, in their package units, they went to the old York/Luxaire over/under design that just plain sucks and although now of them have
very good metal for their venter/blower wheels, Carrier/Bryant use
some kind of Chinese pot metal that barely lasts till the warranty runs out,
I can also say the same for the heat exchangers, almost as bad as
Heil/Tempstar crappy tubular ht exchangers.

Now back to your post:
So my point in all this is not to hammer carrier... (well I just did)
but what happened to the professionals... guys... that could actually fix something??? And why all the bogus crap from these dealers and techs...? and workmanship in their installations? This is becoming a huge problem in several trades IMHO.

I know exactly what you talking about, I see loads of it when I get my trucks or cars worked on, now I'm not saying all of my installs/servicing has been top notch, far from it, but I doubt I'd still have several hundred customers calling me year after year for service. But my best guess is
it all comes down to the money, around here, a new company will put in
a simple 1/2 day 2 ton change-out for $15,000, others are between $4000 and $10,000, me and a helper $3500 and probably do a better job, personally, I hate air leaks, anywhere in the system, just a pet peeve, I use lots of silicone a foil tape, sometime I find a few rolls left by the last company.

Another major problem, just verified by my ACHR-NEWS mag, for every 3
HVAC servicemen retiring, 1 in entering the field, that means the price is going to go up a lot more, especially when you can't buy any R-22, and it's going up once a month around here.

Don't matter anyway, we're all going to be speaking either Chinese or Spanish one day, so get used to it.

M R Kool
mrkool is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2007, 12:40 AM   #19
UAW SKILLED TRADES
 
Stubbie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kansas
Posts: 4,865
Default

HELP! Carrier Weathermaker Infinity Not Working!


Thats cool MrKool

I had to laugh.... I replaced a 1980 whirlpool with that junk carrier...... The whirlpool was installed in a friends home...I gave the whole system to him...it is still running today.

Any way you sure seem to have been around the block and I apologize for the comment about disregarding your post earlier...I actually misread it. I'm choking a bit on that mistake.....

When your a large hvac dealer and repair company no doubt it is a bit of a different ball game time is money as they say. A small family business has to a degree focus more on the quality because that has to be what keeps people calling otherwise you would not be able to compete. I don't like it but that seems to be life in this century.... thing is it isn't always the cheapest price by these larger companies it seems to be the most expensive product price and a poor install then they expect you to kiss them when they leave.
I've worked on a lot of different systems over the years for friends and family and I win some and I lose some. Probably takes me twice as long to figure the problem out as a HVAC tech but it is better than dealing with someone showing up at my door wanting a 100 bucks to grace my driveway before he touches anything.... then having to listen to why I need a whole new system if it becomes a little difficult to diagnose. I swear it's like if they can't fix it in 30 minutes.... try to sell them a new system and get on to the next job. It is so nice to see a tech that will stick with you till the problem is resolved. Anyway I enjoyed your last post. I'm not a carrier fan anymore and I can safely say I'll never own or recommend one. And if I had one I darn sure wouldn't put the blower on all the time. That escapes me...no offense Carrierman but I don't know anyone that would be happy with that whether there is merit to it or not. Surely this isn't a factory recommendation.

Yes I agree about speaking spanish and chinese, but we will be paying 4$ a gallon for gas first.....
Stubbie is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2007, 05:17 PM   #20
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 11
Default

HELP! Carrier Weathermaker Infinity Not Working!


Because all of you have been very helpful to me, I wanted to drop in to let you know the problem I was having has been resolved to my satisfaction, short of having a problem to deal with at all.

A tech came out last night for the second opinion I needed, and he diagnosed a bad control board. That wasn't a surprise given all the comments here. I wasn't too pleased with the cost of the repair ($700, including labor), but I didn't have the part, the tools, the time, or, more importantly, the heat in my home! So we teed up the service call for today.

The tech last night also made a point to let me know that replacing the control board may also reveal other problems. That is, the bad control board disallowed any further diagnoses until it can be replaced. Namely, the blower motor draws power from the board (I'm told), and so it may have been bad too.

That seems like a design flaw to me. That is, a $5000 product was designed to run everything from one point (the control board) in a way that disallows bypassing it or putting the machine into some "diagnostic" mode to diagnose other problems without spending big money to replace something first?

Anyway, I digress... the tech from last night and I agreed that spending $700 just to diagnose other problems seemed pricey. So he suggested replacing the control board first, hoping it alone was the problem. If not, he suggested stopping work to allow me to discuss options with my parents. After all, it was a 10-year-old unit with problems within some seemingly significant subsystems. Maybe replacing the unit was the way to go?

If we decided to replace the unit, he would zero out the $700 repair and we'd install a new one. Why wouldn't he suggest that? He'd be in line for $5000 versus $700.

So a different tech comes by today, running late of course. I had to have a relative let him in while I drove home from work. He had the needed control board, and swapped it out quickly from what I can tell. Lo and behold, the tech began diagnosing other problems in the furnace. Though I'm not happy about that, I was angry about what happened next.

Instead of checking with me like he was asked to by me yesterday, he went ahead and slapped a motor on the blower, a $700 service, without my explicit permission. He was wrapping all of this up by the time I pulled into the driveway. I expected to have a discussion about options. Instead, I faced a $1400 bill instead of being able to make a decision.

I paid the man and sent him on his way, but I was not done with the matter in the least. I called the service manager immediately. After about 30 minutes, we agreed that there was a breakdown in communications somewhere along the line on their end, and as a result, he knocked the cost of the blower motor and service off the final price, a $700 savings to me.

So, as it stands, the temps are rising in the house (there's a big difference between 40 and 60 degrees indoors, trust me!). I have a new blower motor and control board. And I also have a 2-year warranty on both parts. All for $700.

Thanks again for all of your help. If this post stays posted, maybe somebody else can learn from my experiences. I sure hope it doesn't cost them as much time, money, and days of 45 degree temps when stepping out of the shower!
MaxPierre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2007, 05:59 PM   #21
Thoroughbred Mopar Man
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: South/East Kansas
Posts: 638
Default

HELP! Carrier Weathermaker Infinity Not Working!


Thank MaxPierre

I was just reading through some of the responses. I found some of them quite humorus. This is going to help answer some of all the questions. On high end equipment it is the installing companys responsibility to educate the homeowner to the purchase, it is also their responsibility to install it correctly. To answer stubbies as to why they would design this piece of equipment like this is comfort. He talked about his old furnace, it probably did an ok job for what it was. But that furnace did not even come close to the ability of the MVP or MVB Carrier. The old way of doing things are going by the wayside and the newer equipment by ALL manufacturers are going to a CFM driven system. And for mrkool, I think you hit the nail on the head about where have all the good techs gone. I personally am a NATE certified technician, I know you know what that means in the industry. The company I worked for were more interested in linning their pockets and paying me peanuts with crap benifits. I went to work as a Conductor for the Union Pacific railroad. I miss my old job but in 10 months I have made almost $5000.00 dollars more than I did all year at my old job even with the year end bonus. I don't have to kill myself to make some peanuts to throw in front of my dissapointed family. I would have loved to stay in my old profession as I was a true professional. But this seams to be a universal sentiment across the HVAC industry. So until someone is willing to offer this professional tech at least something comparable to what I am now accustomed, I am staying where I am at and I will let my NATE certification laps. Max Pierre I am glad that you got your furnace going, but in all honesty all your furnace needed was a controller on the back of the motor. I am under the impression you just got hosed, but I did not get to see the furnace.

Good luck
Rusty
__________________
Character is doing the right thing even when no one is looking. Intelligence is understanding and practicing the meaning of character.

Last edited by #CARRIERMAN; 12-04-2007 at 06:02 PM.
#CARRIERMAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2007, 09:56 AM   #22
UAW SKILLED TRADES
 
Stubbie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kansas
Posts: 4,865
Default

HELP! Carrier Weathermaker Infinity Not Working!


Hello Max Pierre

I'm also glad you got the furnace going and I sure hope you didn't get hosed.
Sounds like you got a little relief with the return of 700 bucks of your repair bill. I gotta wonder about putting the new motor on when the old one was apparently working when they put the new control board in....does that make any sense? In my weather maker 8000 the first warranty repair was a control board and I had almost identical symptoms as you reported on your infinity. Which is why I responded to your post (that repair was I was told at the time would be about 300 bucks). Generally I don't post in the HVAC forum because their are pro's in that industry that respond here. Not much I can do to add to anything those guys post as advice.
I have to wonder though if these new technology furnaces are so dependent on cfm & proper duct working being installed how on earth do they install them as replacements for old systems and old duct work?
Now in response to Carrierman I didn't mean to make humorous posts but I saw a hose job in the making, though I'm not an HVAC tech, I'm a skilled tradesman retired and I've been round the block just a little bit. If you want my honest opinion the auto repair industry is the worst hoser out there. Doesn't make it right though to take advantage of people who you have cornered into a decision about something they have no knowledge. Boils down to that thing called honesty. I have no gripes about charging someone so you can stay in business and to fix the car or whatever properly but sticking a 700 dollar replacement motor onto a repair that was fixed with the control board?? That wasn't a communication problem btw....
Anyway I hope Union Pacific treats you well I do think you made an excellent career decision. I have two family members and a good friends son who have graduated from the JCCC railroad engineer & conductors school in Overland Park, Kansas. My father in law retired after 40 years with UP.

Stubbie
Stubbie is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2007, 08:00 AM   #23
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 11
Default

HELP! Carrier Weathermaker Infinity Not Working!


I guess I didn't clearly explain what happened, so I'll try again. On the second opinion service call, the tech tells me that he's pretty certain that the control board was bad (things besides the blower weren't working properly, like the draft inducer and the igniter, things mysteriously "powered" up when wires were jiggled, etc.). He also made a point of telling me that the blower module (apparently not the blower motor itself) may also be bad, but that could not be diagnosed until the control board was replaced.

So, the next day before I can get home, the third tech claimed to have diagnosed the bad blower module (which I was not able to see with my own eyes) and had already installed both the control board and the blower module. He was supposed to have waited for me to decide how to proceed before installing the blower module. Instead, he was presenting me with a $1400 bill, twice the amount I agreed to the day before.

The point of asking me (besides the obvious need to ask permission before charging a customer double than what he expected) was to decide (with my parents, who were traveling, because it is their home and ultimately their expense and their decision) if a new furnace was the better option. It was, after all, 10 years old, already working on its second igniter, needing a new control board, and possibly needing other costly repairs. A new system with a 7-10 year "worry-free" warranty might not be too bad, particularly for a retiree (my dad) and a soon to be retiree (my mom).

But the tech decided for me, and that's a big no-no in my book. The service manager agreed, and knocked the price of the blower module and service off the bill. The original may well have been bad and we (my parents and I) may well have decided to repair it instead of replacing the whole unit. But the decision was NOT his to make, and that was the error.

The error may not have been his, however, because the message may not have been transmitted correctly from the second tech to dispatch, dispatch to the third tech, etc. But an error was made on their end, and thus I'm not on the hook for the second unapproved repair. I just have to make sure the credit card company knows this as well.
MaxPierre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2008, 08:44 PM   #24
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 0
Default

HELP! Carrier Weathermaker Infinity Not Working!


mmmmmmmmmmm
ro9beam2002 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2008, 08:44 PM   #25
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 0
Default

HELP! Carrier Weathermaker Infinity Not Working!


mmmmmmmmm
ro9beam2002 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2008, 09:05 PM   #26
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 152
Default

HELP! Carrier Weathermaker Infinity Not Working!


I read these supposed pro talk about a rip first off the system has a bad varyable speed fan motor which most manufacturers will recomend replacing the motor at that point to and they are wicked expensive and went from a soft lock out to a hard one . a licecesned tech is lucky to make enough to take a vacation and retirment usualy means somebody throwing dirt on them so I am a little insulted by people like he's trying to rip you off the part is 200 . I want everybody out there to do a 1 truck exersize add up all the expensises you would reasonably expect if you had a 1 man 1 truck hvac repair comp. 1000 billed hours average a year gas tools training insurance parts salary advertising insurance call backs phone service shop utilitys truck stock and you tell me how much we have to charge per hour to make a living wage and send our kids to school answer that and ill personly walk you through a cheap repair cost you about a hundred bucks
geo fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2009, 11:57 AM   #27
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1
Default

HELP! Carrier Weathermaker Infinity Not Working!


I have a question can the voltage be checked to the motor module, and what would I see. I have checked and between black and white I have 120 (PL13) what should I see at PL6 - 1,2,3,4,5
pantaja is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2009, 06:30 PM   #28
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1
Lightbulb

HELP! Carrier Weathermaker Infinity Not Working!


Stubie, you gave me the exact information I needed. 1,2,3,4 the exact sequence allowed me to fix the problem when I was ready to buy another furnace.
I had.
1.)The thermostat calls for heat
I had.
2.)Draft inducer motor starts up,
Pressure switch attached to the draft motor by a small tube will sense the negative pressure created by the draft inducer. The draft inducer motor runs for 30 to 60 seconds.
I didn't have
3.)Flame sensor senses heat from the hot surface igniter and the control module allows gas to flow to burners.

So I had already checked the resistance on the micro switch attached to the vacuum before and after the inducer motor start up and It worked.
I could fire up the igniter through the diagnostic routine so I knew it worked.

You only forgot step
3a) After the pressure switch, the current is sent to the draft tube safeguard and switch. (Whammo) The sensor was dirty AND it has a manual reset on the outside identical to the limit switches just above the burners. Cleaned and reset this little devil and my error 31 was gone.

4.)Gas burner is ignited by the hot surface igniter or the intermittent pilot. the process is the same regardless of ignition type with Ip it just lights the pilot then a flame sensing rod signals the control module for release of gas .

Thanks again for the order of events, I was exhausted It made a world of difference for me.

grantandjaye is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Carrier Infinity Thermostats / Control4 mistos HVAC 4 12-03-2008 11:02 AM
Carrier code 31 on 58MXA (WeatherMaker 9000?) SteveAnnArbor HVAC 7 11-05-2007 06:53 PM
Carrier Infinity T-stat and Performance heat pump gcole HVAC 3 10-03-2007 03:00 PM
Carrier Infinity Control VS Honeywell VisionPRO 8000 Theromostat super_man4471 HVAC 2 04-26-2007 02:27 PM
Carrier Infinity Vs. Performance? davidwilp HVAC 2 11-15-2006 12:27 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.