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Old 01-23-2009, 09:08 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Dr Heat View Post
N9mpd (not v my bad) is a furnace model number

Maybe you can answer this is the blinking light on the board or the gas valve or both?
Dr. Heat--

The blinking code light is on the board. No light(s) on the valve.

If this is any help, as I recall, the valve is a Honeywell (I asked the contractor if it was a White-Westinghouse and we found the name plate.).

-P


Last edited by PHOnos; 01-23-2009 at 09:11 AM.
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Old 01-23-2009, 01:18 PM   #17
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Dr. Heat--

The blinking code light is on the board. No light(s) on the valve.

If this is any help, as I recall, the valve is a Honeywell (I asked the contractor if it was a White-Westinghouse and we found the name plate.).

-P
How the hell did you go from a Heil furn to a White Westinghouse?
White Westinghouse are appliance mfg. Not furnaces
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Old 01-23-2009, 05:50 PM   #18
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How the hell did you go from a Heil furn to a White Westinghouse?
White Westinghouse are appliance mfg. Not furnaces
Me thinks He meant White Rogers
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Old 01-23-2009, 05:55 PM   #19
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[quote=PHOnos;217791]Dr. Heat--

The blinking code light is on the board. No light(s) on the valve.

well I think the wire harness is your best shot

Just for kicks follow the wire from the gas valve to the board where the wire goes along the right side of the furnace there is a metal clip that holds the wire in the corner of the cabinet check to see if the wire is pinched in that clip. I know it sounds stupid and I am probably wrong but I had two of these about three years ago on a smart valve setup.
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Old 02-09-2009, 10:08 PM   #20
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Well, the wiring harness finally showed up today.

The contractor installed it and a 3rd circuit board. No joy!

The valve will not open unless power is supplied directly from the transformer, bypassing all safeties and the control circuits.

My wife told him to replaced the furnace with a different brand, but he said he may have a problem with finding one that will fit with the cooling coil installed above it.

Contractor said he will be back on the phone with Heil in Tenn. tomorrow.

For Dr. Heat's question --

Model No. is N8MPL100J22B2 with a mfg. date of Sept. 2007.

Apparently Heil is one brand manufactured by International Comfort Products, Lewisburg, Tenn.

Last edited by PHOnos; 02-09-2009 at 10:11 PM.
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Old 02-09-2009, 10:41 PM   #21
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Did the tech ohm the gas valve?

Here's what I'm thinking. You have 24v on the wires to the gas valve while the wires are disconnected. The tech checks voltage with the wires on the valve and reads 0v. Cause you're reading the same 24v. This would mean the gas valve coil is bad, sending 24v back to the board momentarily causing a short. Just enough to reset the board and cause the trial for ignition to start all over again. Hence no fault after 3 tries. It's as if the furnace is getting a new call for heat over and over. JMO but I think the tech needs to change the gas valve.
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Old 02-09-2009, 10:50 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by PHOnos View Post
Well, the wiring harness finally showed up today.

The contractor installed it and a 3rd circuit board. No joy!

The valve will not open unless power is supplied directly from the transformer, bypassing all safeties and the control circuits.

My wife told him to replaced the furnace with a different brand, but he said he may have a problem with finding one that will fit with the cooling coil installed above it.

Contractor said he will be back on the phone with Heil in Tenn. tomorrow.

For Dr. Heat's question --

Model No. is N8MPL100J22B2 with a mfg. date of Sept. 2007.

Apparently He is one brand manufactured by International Comfort Products, Lewisburg, Tenn.

If I had a contractor in my house that couldn't diagnose a no heat call on the first shot you better believe he had better get on the hook and figure that problem out in the next 20 minutes, it doesn't really take longer than that, this isn't brain surgery. If there is no power out to the gas valve, then trace it back and see if there is power coming from the board or not, it's just that simple, you don't need a wiring harness to see if there is power from the board or not. I can't believe that you have this kind of patience.
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Old 02-10-2009, 12:43 PM   #23
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nutesIf Ixt had a contractor in my house that couldn't diagnose a no heat call on the first shot you better believe he had better get on the hook and figure that problem out in the ne 20 mi, it doesn't really take longer than that, this isn't brain surgery. If there is no power out to the gas valve, then trace it back and see if there is power coming from the board or not, it's just that simple, you don't need a wiring harness to see if there is power from the board or not. I can't believe that you have this kind of patience.
Don't know if you are an industrial tech or a residential tech, but that comment is way out in left field. If you think so little of the residential field hat you believe every repair is as easy as changing a light bulb you are badly mistaken. In fact your words smack of contempt.

Every one in this field has had and will continue to have those annoying calls where voltage readings and resistance test contradict faulty operation.

I had one to deal with once where a board fuse was blowing intermittently.

I cheeked and double checked, everything was straight. Twice over a two day period I left after spending hours thinking I had no problem, I was wrong.

On the third day I cam back after thinking over the what could be wrong.

I removed the limit and watched in side the heat ex. I saw some slight movement thru the limit opening. I slide my light in the plenum. A small strip of foil insulation was moving with the air convection currents inside the furnace. When I turned on the blower the foil strip whipped around like a flag in the wind. It was hitting the limit conducts and blowing the fuses.

This mfg used uninsulated conductors connected to the high limit bi-metal.
The foil of course was grounded to the furnace chassis and blew the board fuse when the randomly blowing strip would contact the limit conductors.

I had of course checked and rechecked that limit to ground and got nothing. When it blew the fuse after start up the the foil strip would settle into a position that was not touching the limit. Again I'd check it and get a normal reading.

If you don't admit to having one of those experiences weather u do or resi or commercial than you are not being truthful.

It does no one any good to have you come here and say you can fix it in 20 minutes (I know that was not your exact wording but you give the impression you can) with out actually being there.

So please don't go making assertions that affect the rest of the pros here.

You are making us all look bad with your bragging. And you aren't doing the OP any favors by making this look like it's just another job a guy with no brains or smarts can do.

You said that this isn't brain surgery, you are right . It's HVAC science. I have been doing this stuff for 33 years and i still go to school and attend seminars cause there is just to much going on and too many changes happening. If I didn't keep up i'd be out in no time. So if you are so unhappy with your job that you think so low of it you have to make disparaging remarks against the HVAC industry, please make it clear you are speaking for your self and not the rest of us.
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Last edited by hvaclover; 02-10-2009 at 12:49 PM.
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Old 02-10-2009, 02:03 PM   #24
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Did the tech ohm the gas valve?

Here's what I'm thinking. You have 24v on the wires to the gas valve while the wires are disconnected. The tech checks voltage with the wires on the valve and reads 0v. Cause you're reading the same 24v. This would mean the gas valve coil is bad, sending 24v back to the board momentarily causing a short. Just enough to reset the board and cause the trial for ignition to start all over again. Hence no fault after 3 tries. It's as if the furnace is getting a new call for heat over and over. JMO but I think the tech needs to change the gas valve.
Yea, that's what I think too.

As far as having patience, it's not too cold in the low desert, the house is well insulated, the fireplace works fine, as does the spa, the Indian Casinos are warm and have excellent buffets; and with 35 years as a Environmental and Ground Test Intrumentation Engineer, I too have seen electrical and 3000 PSIG pneumatic circuit problems that would drive a person nuts.

"Murphy was an optimist", "A $50 transistor will always protect a $0.10 fuse", "etc.".
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Old 02-10-2009, 03:10 PM   #25
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Yea, that's what I think too.

As far as having patience, it's not too cold in the low desert, the house is well insulated, the fireplace works fine, as does the spa, the Indian Casinos are warm and have excellent buffets; and with 35 years as a Environmental and Ground Test Intrumentation Engineer, I too have seen electrical and 3000 PSIG pneumatic circuit problems that would drive a person nuts.

"Murphy was an optimist", "A $50 transistor will always protect a $0.10 fuse", "etc.".
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Old 02-11-2009, 06:42 PM   #26
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Well, the contractor called my wife this morning and told her someone at either the distributor or at Heil in Tenn. asked him the right question. He told wife he doesn't believe it and has never seen it in the 10-12 years in the HVAC business, but it seems to work. It apparently only causes a problem occasionally in some H/AC replacements.

I don't believe it either.

If it proves out, I'll let everyone in on the solution to this 4-month tail chaser. I don't want to post bad information.

PHOnos
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Old 02-14-2009, 11:21 AM   #27
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So, what's the solution?
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Old 02-22-2009, 10:46 PM   #28
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Well, it works but I still don't believe it and neither does the contractor.

Someone asked him what kind of thermostat was in the house. He said the original one that was on the old unit. The old furnace and A/C worked fine until the system wouldn't hold a freon charge.

"Well, what kind is it?" 'I don't know the brand but it is a 1-day programable with a mechanical clock and red and blue start-stop dogs and mercury switches on a spring coil."

"OMG........ ", whoever asked the question, "I have never seen it myself, but, I heard that sometimes, once in while, the newer units with electronic control boards will not work with mechanical mercury switch thermostats."

"Sounds like BS", said the contractor.

Anyway, he disconnected the thermostat on the wall in the house and jumpered the wires. The purge system started, the ignitor glowed and THE GAS VALVE OPENED ; the furnace came up to temperature, and the circulation fan started and kept running until he disconnected the jumper and the furnace went into the shutdown cycle.

That's when he called my wife and told her he was replacing the thermostat with an electronic one and did we want a 1-day or 7-day programable?

I know this is hard to believe, but, apparently the mercury switch was generating a slight milli- or micro- DC voltage from the bi-metallic contact of mercury and whatever the contacts are made of (like a thermocouple) that the electronics in the furnace board didn't like, or (like <chard> pointed out above) the signal was bouncing on-off-on-off are the only explainations that I can think of.

Any other ideas would be welcomed.

We were in the desert for three-days and the furnace and A/C (yes, I checked it too) work fine.

As I said, according to HVAC professionals, in most cases these furnaces will work fine with a mechanical thermostat, but . . . you can't argue with the fix that works.

This also explains why the contractor said he had it fixed a couple of times before -- because he couldn't get into the house, he was disconnecting the wires from the thermostat at the furnace and jumpering the terminals. However, when he did it with the thermostat connected back up (when we were there), no joy.

As the contractor said, "We all learned something". He also said he remembered me asking if the thermostat could be the problem but at the time we both agreed, "That can't make any difference, it is either on or off, and the ignition sequence starts fine".

Murphy finally struck out (but gave it a h*** of a try).

Last edited by PHOnos; 02-22-2009 at 11:21 PM.
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Old 02-23-2009, 04:47 AM   #29
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thats a new one on me! clover?,beenthere?

but shame on them for not including a tstat when replacing the system, bet they will from now on. thats pretty much standard operating procedure

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Old 02-23-2009, 07:29 AM   #30
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The old tsat was battery operated. Also it has a recharging feature that creates a Back EMF that throws the board into lock out.

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