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Old 01-25-2013, 09:26 AM   #16
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Heil Furnace driving me insane - and broke!


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Originally Posted by ben's plumbing View Post
take a picture of unit with door off so we can see the inducer,pressure switch,and gas valve ....if you get us the things I ask for...we will fix this unit..ben sr
Thanks Ben!

I don't have a photo handy, but click the link below to the manual / parts blowup for the exact model I do have - it also has illustrations.

NTG3/FBF

If you still want a photo, I will make the time to get one.

I have already replaced item #6, Part #1011927
and #6A, Part #1011449

The gas valve is a honeywell part # VR8204M1075

clients.6ixgun.com/L0502532.pdf

Currently the unit has the door interlock and thermostat bypassed (i.e. - hard wired to call for heat and bypass door safety ).

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Old 01-25-2013, 09:28 AM   #17
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Heil Furnace driving me insane - and broke!


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Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
That gas valve part number is not Honeywell's part number. Post the Honeywell number, or pic of the gas valve. You probably have a smart valve(more commonly known as a dumb valve). And this is one of the things they are known to do.
Honeywell part # VR8204M1075
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Old 01-25-2013, 09:35 AM   #18
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Heil Furnace driving me insane - and broke!


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Originally Posted by HVACTECH96 View Post
How was pressure switch checked?Sucking on tube and hearing click doesn't count.Some units wont work if pressure switch is in a closed position on call for heat.I've seen them stick intermittantly.Also have seen alot of heil's get moisture buildup in pressure switch hose.
We connected an ohm meter to it and took a reading, sucked on the pressure tube and it changed state. I assume its supposed to be open when there is no draft vacuum, and closed when an adequate amount of vacuum is present.

The switch appeared to work as intended. It looks like new, no corrosion any where and the inside of the tube is spotless.
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Old 01-25-2013, 10:33 AM   #19
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Heil Furnace driving me insane - and broke!


Im not a pro like some of the others here, but did the installer comply with the installation instructions completely? Heil Furnaces cam be installed in a number of configurations but some cannot be installed horizontally. Is your model no correct for the application? In addition, you have to relocate the pressure switch on some models for the furnace to work properly, and clearances seem to be pretty important.

Having the furnace dead level also seems to be important. Is it?

Just some thoughts to consider. In general Heil furnaces seem to be nicely designed from an engineering standpoint. Maybe its a basic installation problem.

Check out page 7 of the manual you posted.
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Old 01-25-2013, 10:40 AM   #20
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Heil Furnace driving me insane - and broke!


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Originally Posted by jagans View Post
Im not a pro like some of the others here, but did the installer comply with the installation instructions completely? Heil Furnaces cam be installed in a number of configurations but some cannot be installed horizontally. Is your model no correct for the application? In addition, you have to relocate the pressure switch on some models for the furnace to work properly, and clearances seem to be pretty important.

Having the furnace dead level also seems to be important. Is it?

Just some thoughts to consider. In general Heil furnaces seem to be nicely designed from an engineering standpoint. Maybe its a basic installation problem.

Check out page 7 of the manual you posted.
Furnace is 10 years old, it was installed right and had been running fine. Definitely not the issue.
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Old 01-25-2013, 11:00 AM   #21
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Heil Furnace driving me insane - and broke!


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Originally Posted by HVACTECH96 View Post
You could test this theory by jumping pressure switch out before you have a call for heat and see if you get same no id motor.If id motor comes on , remove jumpers and bang head on furnace.
I like the way you think.
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Old 01-25-2013, 12:17 PM   #22
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Heil Furnace driving me insane - and broke!


OK it was running fine, then stopped running fine. What has changed? Condensate lines clean?

Vacuum lines clear?

Filters clean?

Evaporator coil clean?

Blower clean?
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Old 02-01-2013, 11:13 AM   #23
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Heil Furnace driving me insane - and broke!


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Originally Posted by jagans View Post
OK it was running fine, then stopped running fine. What has changed? Condensate lines clean?

Vacuum lines clear?

Filters clean?

Evaporator coil clean?

Blower clean?

All that is fine, we checked everything that is typical to check. The furnace is spotless, in fact its a backup its hardly used. No dirt, no dust, no corrosion, ignitor is clean, burner is clean, there is no obstruction in anything.

The Draft Inducer won't start - that is furnace 101, its not the limit switches, its no the fan board, its not the intermittent pilot module, its not the inducer motor, its not the 24v transformer, its not the vacuum switch.

So.... what the hell is it ? I was told if the gas valve was stuck the inducer would still start .. I have in fact, disconnected the gas valve on the other working furnace and the inducer does indeed still start.

Disconnecting the gas valve on this (troubled) furnace does nothing at all, the inducer never starts.... screwed up man.
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Old 02-01-2013, 12:45 PM   #24
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Heil Furnace driving me insane - and broke!


Forgive my saying so, but you are not instilling confidence in those of us that fly. I was in the AF and could take a jet engine apart and put it back together, but I sure could not design one.

Just kidding.

Were I you, I would go ahead and replace the gas valve, or at least take the gas valve off the good twin and try it on the wayward one. If that works, Maybe its something simple like a loose terminal lug that is intermittent I had one of those last week. I soldered all new ones on because the originals were crimped.

Bean Counters and lawyers. If they would fire them, they could use the money they saved to build them right, like the old days.
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Old 02-01-2013, 01:11 PM   #25
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Heil Furnace driving me insane - and broke!


Replace the disconnect switch. I have had them get weak and even if they show 120 volts a weak switch can not allow enough amps to flow to run the furnace. A cheap option to try first. Then check for proper grounding to the furnace. With your ohm meter and a cheater piece of wire to a water line see if you get 0 Ohm reading or very close. Grounding can cause problems. Are you getting 120 volts to the inducer with the tstat jumpered ( r to w)? .. You may also have a poor connection on one of the white molex connectors ( pin connectors ) to the board or anywhere in the furnace. sometimes you have to remove them and look with a magnifying glass to see if one got pushed back. check the wire connections of the 120 where they enter the furnace and redo them and make sure the gound is connected tight. these are all rare scenarios but after 34 yrs in this biz this stuff happens to me at least twice a heating season.

Hey jet guys, how come the F4 Phantom smoked so much? Just finished watching Air Aces and your Robin Olds was the true Top Gun.
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Last edited by yuri; 02-01-2013 at 01:30 PM.
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Old 02-01-2013, 01:38 PM   #26
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Heil Furnace driving me insane - and broke!


[QUOTE=yuri;1107212]Replace the disconnect switch. I have had them get weak and even if they show 120 volts a weak switch can not allow enough amps to flow to run the furnace. A cheap option to try first. Then check for proper grounding to the furnace. With your ohm meter and a cheater piece of wire to a water line see if you get 0 Ohm reading or very close. Grounding can cause problems. Are you getting 120 volts to the inducer with the tstat jumpered ( r to w)? .. You may also have a poor connection on one of the white molex connectors ( pin connectors ) to the board or anywhere in the furnace. sometimes you have to remove them and look with a magnifying glass to see if one got pushed back. check the wire connections of the 120 where they enter the furnace and redo them and make sure the gound is connected tight. these are all rare scenarios but after 34 yrs in this biz this stuff happens to me at least twice a heating season.

Thanks for the reply - disconnect switch is already bypassed, that was the first thing I did. I have already unseated and re-seated every connector in the unit. Checked resistance to ground, checked power, checked 24V - all good. We replaced all the T-Stat wiring, replaced the fan control board and intermittent pilot module. Only thing left is the gas valve but we verified it was not that by unplugging it - the draft inducer should still start on that model even when the valve is bypassed.

Unfortunately, I cannot locate the schematic for the gas valve so I have no idea how to check it.
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Old 02-01-2013, 01:48 PM   #27
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Heil Furnace driving me insane - and broke!


"Hey jet guys, how come the F4 Phantom smoked so much? Just finished watching Air Aces and your Robin Olds was the true Top Gun... "



The J-79 jet engine was a relatively inefficient design, the combustor ran rich and cold - mainly due to the lack of ultra exotic metals that could withstand the high combustion temps at the time. As a result, the fuel did not burn at its full efficiency and when JP4 does not burn hot, it smokes.

The smoke trails were how enemies tracked and shot them down. It was a liability for sure. A few years after the original J-79 came out, P&W figured out how to make a hotter injector / combustor and replaced the shell with Hastelloy X, a precursor to the modern alloys of Monel, Titanium and Nickel. No more smoke...
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Old 02-01-2013, 02:02 PM   #28
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Heil Furnace driving me insane - and broke!


Thank You Jet Man. They told us it was water injection. Of course they told us that a NV torpedo boat attacked a US destroyer in the Gulf of Tonkin too.

So because Johnson could not man up and tell 264 parents that their sons died in vain in a no-win war he went ahead and killed 58,600 of us. True, the enemy could track the smoke. They also knew beforehand where we were going to come from because of all the no-fly zones. That so called War was total Bull****, and it is largely responsible for the world we live in today. A lot of good men died over there, and a lot more died from agent Orange, PTSD, and Suicide.

Of course our wonderful government denies that Dioxin kills humans.

Our foreign policy, nor our ability to pick leaders has improved. Sorry Im way off topic, it happens.

But thanks. I always wondered why the F4 would need to apply water injection when landing. F

My squadron had F-105's which had the J-75. Same engine as the U-2 The container that the afterburner came in made one hell of a Beer cooler. 6 inches of Expanded Polystyrene. You could dump 12 cases in there and the cans still looked like islands.
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Last edited by jagans; 02-01-2013 at 02:09 PM.
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Old 02-01-2013, 02:08 PM   #29
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Thank You Jet Man. They told us it was water injection. Of course they told us that a NV torpedo boat attacked a US destroyer in the Gulf of Tonkin too.

So because Johnson could not man up and tell 264 parents that their sons died in vain in a no-win war he went ahead and killed 58,600 of us.

Our foreign policy, nor our ability to pick leaders has improved.

But thanks. I always wondered why the F4 would need to apply water injection when landing. F

My squadron had F-105's which had the J-75. Same engine as the U-2 The container that the afterburner came in made one hell of a Beer cooler. 6 inches of Expanded Polystyrene. You could dump 12 cases in there and the cans still looked like islands.

Agreed on all fronts. I think the current idiot is far worse than Johnson, but that's me. The US is lost. We'll all be speaking Chinese soon.

Back to jets - water injection was used for two reasons - 1, mainly for added thrust during full load take off, but also to cool the aft engine section on landing.
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Old 02-01-2013, 03:11 PM   #30
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Huang Ti Chai Ca? Ting chai do sy.

Did you change the gas valve yet? Thats whats wrong.

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