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Old 02-28-2008, 06:06 PM   #1
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HEIL 5000 HVAC troubleshooting


Last night I got home from work and wife said that the heating unit had been putting out this light burning smell. Withing a few minutes, I noticed it myself and immediately turned it off. Talk about a cold night last night. Anyway this morning I turned it on and went outside to check the unit out. The fan ontop of the unit was not working at the time, so I turned all the power of and proceed to clean all leaves from the fall around the unit and took the top cover off and cleaned the leaves on the bottom of the inside of the unit off. Then I restored power and turned the unit back on and warm air began blowing through the vents in the house with no smell or anything. All appeared normal, then approximately 1 hour later I smelled the same light smokey smell again and went and checked all of the vents in the house, no air or very light air was coming through those vents and the fan located on the unit outside was still working. I don't really know much about these units but I suspect that either there is a short or the blower is going out. Does anyone have any ideas about this?

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Old 02-29-2008, 05:53 PM   #2
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HEIL 5000 HVAC troubleshooting


with minimal air and a smell your supply fan motor might be causing it.next time you have the smell and little air shut the unit, and go right for the indoor fan motor.shut the servie toggle off remove the fan access panel and touch the motor casing if its on its way out it will be warm/hot to the touch..then try to free spin the fan might be tight and hardly turns...might have oil ports otherwise you need a new motor.

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Old 03-01-2008, 09:54 AM   #3
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HEIL 5000 HVAC troubleshooting


ok thanks, I'm just confused as I know very little about heat pumps. Are you referring to the fan located on the unit outside of my house. Or do I need to look at a component located under the house. My home has a crawlspace/slab and you can walk completely upright in the crawlspace as my house was built on a hill! I'm pretty sure that components to both of my heat pumps are located in the crawlspace. Oh and last night I turned the unit to off and then turned the fan on (not auto) and let it run after about 30 minutes the fan shutoff by itself (not on auto and a/c - heat unit was set to off). This morning I tried to do the same thing and the fan acted like it wanted to come on but I could tell that it didn't and no air came out of vents. I again have shut the unit down. I'm leaning toward the fan being on its way out but I am not sure where I need to look to find this fan.
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Old 03-01-2008, 11:49 AM   #4
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HEIL 5000 HVAC troubleshooting


OK so you have a HP and indoor fan seems to be dying out after a restart.the outside part is your CONDENSER with a compressor and condenser fan both run in the heating mode/the cooling mode when the thermostat calls for either it also brings in the supply fan in the crawl space if it is the AUTO setting on the stat.if either end fails to run the stat is calling and keeps calling for either cool/heat till setpoint is met.you need to concentrate on the supply fan in the crawl space....so put the stat to SYSTEM/ OFF and FAN to ON and use the toggle on the side of the fan section in the crawl to stop and start it.pull the cover off the side of the fan section and see if it free wheels when you finger spin it might take some oil on the bearings if you can see them.filter is clean?rounds on squirrel cage within fan are clean?if it is warm or even hot after a restart and stop the motor is on its way out...do the visual first and let me know the results.....FYI..Whats called What on your system?on the outside your condenser consists of the (1)compressor and the (2)condenser fan.the interior section is your evaporative section with a "A" coil within,and a SUPPLY FAN and filter.
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Old 03-01-2008, 07:45 PM   #5
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Ok, I looked at it today, didn't get as far as opening the case yet, because I was unsure about the toggle you were talking about I did notice that the evaporative section has what looks like two circuit breakers like you would find in your breaker box in the house. When I turned these off the unit in the crawlspace did turn off. I just wanted to make sure that this is what you where referring to when you said a toggle. Also, I wanted to make sure that once those are turned off then it will be safe to open the case with no fear of electrical shock.
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Old 03-01-2008, 08:04 PM   #6
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HEIL 5000 HVAC troubleshooting


that will saftey the fan out from running make sure the system is in the off position also from the stat.i will check back tomorrow afternoon to see what's up
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Old 03-02-2008, 12:39 PM   #7
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I'm checking it right now, let you know something in a few minutes the squirrel cage does appear very dirty, didn't see a filter at the unit, but just replaced the inside filter in the house last week with 3 month filter.
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Old 03-02-2008, 12:43 PM   #8
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ok fan turns easily and is not hot at all, now, i'm assuming that the fan and the squirrel cage a located at the same place with a metal shaft coming out of the center, that is what i turned.
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Old 03-02-2008, 12:47 PM   #9
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HEIL 5000 HVAC troubleshooting


now as far as the outside unit (condenser/compressor) is that fan supposed to run when the unit is in the off position but the fan is turned on not to auto? If it is that fan is not running right now, but keep in mind I do have the evaporative unit toggle turned to off right now. So I don't believe that the fan on the condenser/compressor would run anyway....is that correct?
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Old 03-02-2008, 12:50 PM   #10
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I have two of these units one unit is located in a furnace closet upstairs and the other is the one we are experiencing diffulcuties with that one is located in the crawlspace and is mounted by mounting brackets and 2 2x4s under the floor of our living room. The one is the crawlspace appears to have alot more wear on it (cosmetically anyway) probably from being more exposed to the moisture in the crawlspace. Is there anything else you think it could be, I was thinking of staying down there and flipping the toggle back to on until the fan shut off again.
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Old 03-02-2008, 01:35 PM   #11
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HEIL 5000 HVAC troubleshooting


that's why i wanted you to turn the system off at the stat,and just work the fan from the ON position on the stat.YES...on the evaporator shut off if it is in the OFF position the system will not run(but the stat setting with guarentee it).the trick hear is to run the supply fan in the crawl space till it slows down or stops totally from just the FAN -ON setting off the stat.to see if it is warm or hot after stopping.YES....that is the squirrel cage you spun with your finger when you saw if it was freed up..where the squirrel cage fins clean of major dust or dirt?you noticed the condition of the attic mounted unit vs the crawl space cabinet and the daily weather conditions(could add to a bearing problem drying out).the motor might turn free now but after a heated run with the heat coming off the coil and the motor generated heat it could lock up...if you can(depending on the outside)try to run fan only inside to see if it locks up...then run it with the heating going to see if that steps up the slow down condition if you feel any slow down of the air run down and check that motor with touching it somehing is slowing it up...HEAT is the only item being added...were looking for a condition after it runs ....not in the off position!

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Old 03-02-2008, 01:56 PM   #12
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HEIL 5000 HVAC troubleshooting


It is definately the motor, just let the fan run until the air stopped blowing and went down to check it and the motor is definately hot, so I'm pretty sure that is it. I did smell a light burning smell when I was down there also, nothing strong but burning none the less. So my next question is this would you know of a rough estimate for the cost of purchasing one of those motors and are all HEIL 5000 units have the same motors? I need to look for what type of motor, blower motor, fan motor, etc..... what exactly is the motor that I need to replace called? I really appreciate all that you have done for me you have been a great help, it does look like something I can do myself, my neighbor is an electrical engineer and I'm sure he would help me replace that motor.
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Old 03-02-2008, 02:01 PM   #13
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HEIL 5000 HVAC troubleshooting


I'm attaching a link to a website that sells these motors, I realize I'm probably going to have to take the motor out first and find a part number but the first motor listed on this link says its a universal fit for heil and it is approx $200.00

http://americanhvacparts.com/Merchan...ry_Code=m-heil

Guess I'm curious about the volts and Horsepower one is 1/2 and the other is 3/4 HP. The top two listed on the page resemble the motor that I have, with the long shaft.

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Old 03-02-2008, 04:02 PM   #14
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HEIL 5000 HVAC troubleshooting


the MOTOR can be changes with just the panels down on both sides....the motor is likley inside the squirrel cage on that typical air handler..easy to remove,sand the shaft lightly...spray the shaft and locking nut with WD40 loosen the locking nut and grab the end of the shaft with a channel locks or pliers.then spin the squirrel cage while holding the SHAFT to loosen it up off the shaft.pull the mounting screws off the motor end and slide the motor out work in and out,till it slides the squirrel cage stays inside during the changeout.the tag on the motor is all the info you'll need note the number total of wires connected where,and write it all down before disconnecting anything on the eletrical end the motor is probably 115V 2 speeds becuase it is a heat pump(HI COOL /LO HEAT)the frame #,HP,volts,RPMs,BRAND...model or CATALOG# try www.grangier.com to match the motor you can walk in and pick it up or have it ordered.the shaft isn't that critical it can be cut if you get it long but the exact will match even on the shaft lenght..as long as it isn't shorter you willhave a capacitor on the motor with 2 brown wires going to it get a new one with a new motor it has numbers on it to reference.the motor has to be exact especially on the RPMs,HP ,FRAME have to get that tag!!! 1/2HP ...compared to 3/4HP is design of the air handle specs from the brand name builder.

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Old 03-02-2008, 04:09 PM   #15
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Ok thanks, I appreciate all of the information.

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