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Old 03-01-2009, 02:29 PM   #1
walt1122
 
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HeatPump concerns


Hi, haven't used HeatPumps for a while. Went to geothermal in our primary residence a few years ago and have just built a second home with a HeatPump Frigadare R-410A for heating and cooling. It is 32 degrees F outside and the fan has been on for a few minutes supplying heat (relatively warm but not sure the exact temp but have seen temps up in the low 80's) to satisfy the 68 degree set point on the thermostat. All of a sudden the air coming out is COLD!! Run and get temp probe and meter which shows just under 65 degrees coming from the supply vent. I've owned HeatPumps before, an old R-12 Carrier, a R-22 Trane, but don't remember them dumping cold air into the house. If they had to cycle to remove any possible ice on the coils I could swear they did it outside without affecting the heat coming inside. Am I getting old, losing my mind? Or is there something I'm missing?? I have experienced this a couple of time now and just wonder if the problem is me or the unit. Plus I'm told the unit is a two stage 1.5 and 2 ton model. How can I tell when it is in either mode? Simple non-set back thermostat doesn't tell me a thing and nothing on the unit itself gives any indication. I've had some issues with the installation, forgot to create a space for a filter, didn't hook up the electric back-up, had to fight to get him to do a heatload calculation, said it wasn't necessary! Refused to do a duct design and just ran the ducts anywhere he felt like it. So I'm not too confident in his work. For all I know it is hard wired to work in 2 ton and won't even try in 1.5 to see if that will satisfactorily heat/cool an 880SQFT apartment in Tennessee.

Thanks

Walt

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Old 03-01-2009, 03:11 PM   #2
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HeatPump concerns


i would check the electric heat that should come on doing the defrost mode. also cheke tstat for type and wiring. ton and a half should work under light loads. then two ton should kick in when needed.

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Old 03-01-2009, 04:18 PM   #3
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HeatPump concerns


Hi astottl, I understand the premise, that system can switch between 1.5 and 2 ton depending on load conditions but I'm concerned that it isn't set up properly. If as you suggest the electric coils should come on when system is in defrost mode and it does not apear that this is the case then once again there may be some problem with the installation. How then can I be certain they haven't just wired it up as a 2 ton negating the benefit of having the two systems or even worse just wired it up for 1.5 ton and I go to electric back up when the second stage could handle the extra load or at least have less need for the electric back up? I was just hoping there was an easy way to tell if the system is indeed starting up using the 1.5 stage and if necessary going to the 2 ton. Shouldn't I see a spike in amps? something, fan speed changes??

Other issues still bothers me. I had a switch on the electric coils that I installed to keep them from coming on and forcing the system in the old house to work longer so it would stay at peak efficiency. I would keep the coils off during the early winter months have them available during the coldest months in New Jersey and turn them back off again in the early spring. I still don't remember that sysem sending out cold air during the defrost cycle with the coils on or off.

thanks

Walt
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Old 03-01-2009, 05:16 PM   #4
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HeatPump concerns


Sounds like this unit is still under warranty. I would call the installer. If you do anything . The installer may tell you you voided the warranty
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Old 03-01-2009, 05:55 PM   #5
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HeatPump concerns


Hi kenmac, If I thought I could trust the installer I would certainly would call him back. But right now I am trying to find out all I can so when I do have him back I hope to have a better understanding of what to expect and maybe know if he is just "blowing smoke". He has done sub-standard work, performed work and charged me for it when I expressly asked that he NOT do it. He had made several mistakes in installing and in one case when I complained that he neglected to install a place to put an air filter he said I could run the unit without one and wouldn't harm anything. This is right after the sheetrock went up and all the dust was still everywhere. I said I didn't think that was a smart idea and he finally scheduled a service call to have his guys cut in a place for the filter. The slot they made was for a 20 x 18 filter! You see many of them at Home Depot?? I don't. I had to get a 20 x 20 and cut one down. Suffice to say I'm not thrilled with this guy. My builder gave him the work and by the time I got down here to Tennessee from New Jersey they had already started the install.

thanks for your thoughts but I think I could still use more suggestions if you or others can be of assistance.

Walt
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Old 03-01-2009, 06:00 PM   #6
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HeatPump concerns


I don't know how cold it is in you'er area. But when / if the heat strips came on you should have seen a temp. increase. You can take the side cover off the air handler turn on aux heat & see if the heat strips are glowing red. Tennessee should have an HVAC governing board. If you feel he has performed substandard work Call the HVAC board & see if they will inspect the workmanship

Last edited by kenmac; 03-01-2009 at 06:03 PM.
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Old 03-01-2009, 11:16 PM   #7
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HeatPump concerns


Walt, 65 degree air sounds like the HP is in defrost and one bank aux. heat is on to temper the air. When a hp goes into defrost it is actually going into cooling and shutting off the od fan to melt the frost off faster.

I would call another contractor to look over the system to verify the system is set up correctly. Also you could contact the manufacturer of the system and have them put some pressure on the original installing company. I konw Lennox and Carrier are both pretty good about screening their contractors.
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Old 03-02-2009, 07:30 AM   #8
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HeatPump concerns


hey walt most air handlers have a provision for the filter at the bottom of the unit suprised you dont have one there. and i agree with the others that the cold blow is defrost mode which you wouldnt have had on the geothermal unit. you should have a 2 stage cool and 2 stage heat stat for that system to work properly
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Old 03-02-2009, 08:03 AM   #9
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HeatPump concerns


walt if you have the program set up for the stat you should be able to go thru the test modes (depending on the type of stat ) but it sounds lijke it is not working right. you can do a amp draw on the unit to see what is being powered up at what stage. it sounds like a matter of getting the stat set up correctly. also have the electric checked for proper size to feed heaters and run unit.
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Old 03-02-2009, 08:58 AM   #10
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HeatPump concerns


Hi All, thanks for the advice and it does sound like I need to have someone else look the unit over. kennzz05, yes there is a cover that can be removed and a filter can be put in. However, they ran the referigant lines out and around it to make it a but inaccessable. After I complained that I did not feel it was right to run the system without a filter, fearing the blower would get dirt on the air exchanger and overwork the compressor. Only then did they come out and reroute the lines. sgthvac are you saying the outside fan should NOT be running during the defrost cycle. It does appear that it continues to run even in the defrost cycle. What is the purpose of it not running.

thanks again to all of you for you insight and suggestions

Walt
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Old 03-02-2009, 05:59 PM   #11
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HeatPump concerns


When in defrost, the defrost board shuts down the outdoor fan and normally energizes the reversing valve to put in ac. Shutting down the outdoor fan causes the pressure to rise in the OD unit and because of the high pressure it is creating heat to thaw out the coil.
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Old 03-02-2009, 06:56 PM   #12
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HeatPump concerns


thanks sgthvac


Walt

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