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Old 01-10-2017, 12:52 PM   #16
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Re: Heat pumps, large house, and efficiency-Stage 1 vs. 2 vs. 3


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Originally Posted by user_12345a View Post
-10f is a bit of a strech, it may save a little bit but the heat output is probably so low, it's not worth the wear.

traditional air source heatpumps aren't suitable for frigid weather.
It's not a stretch at all. The heat strips are active on a supplemental basis at that temp so it doesn't run for as long as you would think. It's still 15,000 btu coming in at less than the same value in on a heat strip.

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Old 01-10-2017, 04:40 PM   #17
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Re: Heat pumps, large house, and efficiency-Stage 1 vs. 2 vs. 3


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Originally Posted by user_12345a View Post
-10f is a bit of a strech, it may save a little bit but the heat output is probably so low, it's not worth the wear.

traditional air source heatpumps aren't suitable for frigid weather.
Might only save the OP 15 bucks a month, or it could be 30 bucks a month at -10F. Depending on the defrost board. On demand will basically only be defrosting once every 6 hours of compressor run time when its -10 outside.

So if the OP is at a COP of 1.3 at -10F, he is getting 30$ more heat per dollar from it, then what his resistance heat gives.
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Old 01-10-2017, 04:48 PM   #18
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Re: Heat pumps, large house, and efficiency-Stage 1 vs. 2 vs. 3


For reference, my electric bill was $628 last month (early December to early January) and it wasn't even that cold save for a few days, so though it may seem like I am splitting hairs, this could end up real money over time.
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Old 01-10-2017, 05:18 PM   #19
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Re: Heat pumps, large house, and efficiency-Stage 1 vs. 2 vs. 3


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For reference, my electric bill was $628 last month (early December to early January) and it wasn't even that cold save for a few days, so though it may seem like I am splitting hairs, this could end up real money over time.
Wow.
I'm in Manitoba Canada... MUCH colder than you and my total electric bill for dec-jan was $322 (3417 Kwh)

How much are you getting scalped for electricity?
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Old 01-10-2017, 07:36 PM   #20
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Re: Heat pumps, large house, and efficiency-Stage 1 vs. 2 vs. 3


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Wow.
I'm in Manitoba Canada... MUCH colder than you and my total electric bill for dec-jan was $322 (3417 Kwh)

How much are you getting scalped for electricity?
4587 kWh, so about $0.1369/kWh.

You have a heat pump in Manitoba?!?
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Old 01-10-2017, 07:47 PM   #21
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Re: Heat pumps, large house, and efficiency-Stage 1 vs. 2 vs. 3


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4587 kWh, so about $0.1369/kWh.

You have a heat pump in Manitoba?!?
Yeah, that explains it. We're at about $0.076

Don't like gas. With the price of electricity here a good heat pump works out to about the same as a mid efficient gas furnace. This is our second year with a HP and it has worked out quite well. The only pain is keeping the condenser free of ice and snow.
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Old 01-11-2017, 02:35 AM   #22
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Re: Heat pumps, large house, and efficiency-Stage 1 vs. 2 vs. 3


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Yeah, that explains it. We're at about $0.076

Don't like gas. With the price of electricity here a good heat pump works out to about the same as a mid efficient gas furnace. This is our second year with a HP and it has worked out quite well. The only pain is keeping the condenser free of ice and snow.
Ours is closer to $0.23/kw.h after extra distribution and fees. (Ontario) My heat pump was older and not sized like yours, so I'd expect +$500/month during January now if I was still on it. (4-6Mwh) Down to below $80/month on gas. (annualised it's about as high as the furnace before labour)

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Old 01-11-2017, 04:43 AM   #23
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Re: Heat pumps, large house, and efficiency-Stage 1 vs. 2 vs. 3


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Ours is closer to $0.23/kw.h after extra distribution and fees. (Ontario) My heat pump was older and not sized like yours, so I'd expect +$500/month during January now if I was still on it. (4-6Mwh) Down to below $80/month on gas. (annualised it's about as high as the furnace before labour)

Cheers!
Yeah, the Ontario power is crazy.... highest in the Country I think? The gas is going to go up though because of the carbon tax. It won't be much at first, but it'll start spiraling up over time.
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Old 01-11-2017, 07:10 AM   #24
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Re: Heat pumps, large house, and efficiency-Stage 1 vs. 2 vs. 3


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Yeah, the Ontario power is crazy.... highest in the Country I think? The gas is going to go up though because of the carbon tax. It won't be much at first, but it'll start spiraling up over time.
Electricity will follow suit.... A good portion of our peak electricity is NG generated....

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Old 01-11-2017, 01:02 PM   #25
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Re: Heat pumps, large house, and efficiency-Stage 1 vs. 2 vs. 3


all of the peak capacity is gas; the gas is also used to backup wind farms which are so unreliable that there are no fuel savings. should have just kept the coal plants and put scrubbers on the smoke stacks, would have been a lot cheaper with only a little more smog forming pollution.

The carbon tax is harmful where there is no alternative to fossil and nuclear fuels. the only forms of renewable power generation which make sense are geothermal and hydro. most places don't have the right geography for those.
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Last edited by user_12345a; 01-11-2017 at 01:05 PM.
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Old 01-11-2017, 05:09 PM   #26
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Re: Heat pumps, large house, and efficiency-Stage 1 vs. 2 vs. 3


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Electricity will follow suit.... A good portion of our peak electricity is NG generated....

Cheers!
Yeah... forgot about that. In Manitoba most of our power is hydro.
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Old 01-11-2017, 05:13 PM   #27
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Re: Heat pumps, large house, and efficiency-Stage 1 vs. 2 vs. 3


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Originally Posted by user_12345a View Post
all of the peak capacity is gas; the gas is also used to backup wind farms which are so unreliable that there are no fuel savings. should have just kept the coal plants and put scrubbers on the smoke stacks, would have been a lot cheaper with only a little more smog forming pollution.

The carbon tax is harmful where there is no alternative to fossil and nuclear fuels. the only forms of renewable power generation which make sense are geothermal and hydro. most places don't have the right geography for those.
The already had state of the art scrubbers on Nanticoke. They actually made money from selling the solid waste.... Anyways, can't change the past....

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Old 01-11-2017, 10:00 PM   #28
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Re: Heat pumps, large house, and efficiency-Stage 1 vs. 2 vs. 3


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Thanks for the replies. This morning it was approximately 18 degrees and I noticed that the upstairs heat pump did turn off temporarily as it reached the thermostat setpoint of 68 degrees. I have outdoor units 4TWX6060B1000A and 4TWX6060A1000A but am not able to locate any published COP. This is the only information I was able to find:

"A.R.I. STANDARD 210/240 RATING CONDITIONS (A) Cooling 80F. D.B., 67F. W.B. air entering indoor coil, 95F. D.B. air
entering outdoor coil. (B) High Temperature Heating 47F. D.B., 43F. W.B. air entering outdoor coil, 70F. D.B. air entering indoor
coil. (C) Low Temperature Heating 17F. D.B., 15F. W.B. air entering outdoor coil, 70F. D.B. air entering indoor coil. (D) Rated
indoor airflow for heating is the same as for cooling."

I am unclear on what "D.B." and "W.B." mean.
DB = dry bulb (fancy name for a thermometer)
WB= wet bulb (a thermometer with a wet material around the bulb. It sounds for humidity.)

http://www.comfortsouth.com/files//51-17411.pdf

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Old 01-11-2017, 10:55 PM   #29
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Re: Heat pumps, large house, and efficiency-Stage 1 vs. 2 vs. 3


https://elibrary.comfortsite.com/lol...sted_filename=

Cheers!

Last edited by supers05; 01-11-2017 at 11:08 PM.
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Old 01-11-2017, 11:51 PM   #30
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Re: Heat pumps, large house, and efficiency-Stage 1 vs. 2 vs. 3


Apparently I'm not very adept at using Trane's portal. I can't find the extended performance data for that model number....

Cheers!

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