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Old 07-27-2013, 11:22 AM   #1
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Hard Start Kit a question general info


Should these REALLY be on all units?

Are they not because they reduce the cost of a unit?

or

Are they only necessary at a certain point and reason? (Please explain)

Thanks

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Old 07-27-2013, 11:59 AM   #2
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Hard Start Kit a question general info


Alls I know is that upgrading my coil from a FOV to TXV it was recommended that a hard start kit be added since the TXV shuts and does not allow pressures to equalize when the unit cycles off. So you need an extra kick in starting power to start pumping the refrigerant when it cycles back on. Also have read that when compressors get old they might need a hard start kit if they are having difficulty starting or only starting intermittently. I suspect systems that come with TXVs already have sufficient capacitor included.

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Old 07-27-2013, 12:29 PM   #3
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Hard Start Kit a question general info


Any PSC motor will start quicker, use less electricity to start, and last longer with a good start kit on it, so I consider it a best practice, but it isn't really needed most of the time.
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Old 07-27-2013, 01:10 PM   #4
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Hard Start Kit a question general info


Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalplumber View Post
Should these REALLY be on all units?

Are they not because they reduce the cost of a unit?

or

Are they only necessary at a certain point and reason? (Please explain)

Thanks
Is your compressor a recip, or scroll?

What type of metering device does the system have?

Are your lights dimming when the condenser starts?
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Old 07-27-2013, 01:12 PM   #5
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Hard Start Kit a question general info


Quote:
Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
Is your compressor a recip, or scroll?

What type of metering device does the system have?

Are your lights dimming when the condenser starts?


4 ton Rheem

FOV

Yes
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Old 07-27-2013, 01:15 PM   #6
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Hard Start Kit a question general info


they don't need to be on all units. with a non equalized TX valve then it needs one. we had AC units for 50 yrs now and did not need them. some deluxe units have them. It comes down to cost. If a home builder buys 500-1000 units a year and saves $10-50 on each that is huge $$ for him so no they won't include them to get the unit priced as low as possible for the builders market etc etc.
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Old 07-27-2013, 01:15 PM   #7
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Hard Start Kit a question general info


Then a hard start will help to eliminate or minimize the dimming.

It could be the transformer that is supplying the house is weak, or your POCO is not providing full voltage due to summer demand. Or the wire run to the condenser is a bit long.

Or, if its an older system. the start windings are getting weak, and need a litle help.
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Old 07-27-2013, 01:42 PM   #8
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Hard Start Kit a question general info


How do you determine whether a TXV is equalized or not? Mine is a 3 ton Carrier R22 coil CNRVP circa 2006 mfg. I don't hear any equalizing flow after the condenser cycles off like I had with the old FOV. My a/c started OK with this coil before I added the hard start kit, but I added it anyway.

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they don't need to be on all units. with a non equalized TX valve then it needs one.
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Old 07-27-2013, 01:43 PM   #9
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Hard Start Kit a question general info


Are there a real difference between HS kit with or without relay?
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Old 07-27-2013, 02:01 PM   #10
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Hard Start Kit a question general info


2 good questions so I will kill 2 birds with 1 stone.

1) The TX valve will have a small 1/8" or 1/4" copper line coming out the side of it's body and attaching to the big suction line. some Carriers have it built onto the coil and hard 2 C.

2) Hard start kits and especially the cheap ones are known to blow up and lots of guys hate them. Houston204 used to be here and he is in Texas and I believe he said he seen lots blow up. Other techs say the same thing. They have a cheap solid state relay in them I believe ( never cut one open 2 C). A proper hard start kit has a starting relay (potential relay that is a heavy relay) so it won't blow up. not sure why they blow up but in Texas, they may have to start against much higher head pressures than where I am. You get what you pay 4 and they are fairly cheap.
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Old 07-27-2013, 02:20 PM   #11
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My coil def has the eq line. It is brazed into the vapor line, not a schraeder like some I see online. So I guess I don't really need the hard start after all. My HS is a Supco (can't recall which model), I guess one of the cheap ones. Hasn't blown up yet!
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Old 07-27-2013, 03:02 PM   #12
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The external equalizer line, tells you nothing about weather it equalizes or not when the system shuts off. A balanced port/hard shut off TXV has an external equalizer line.
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Old 07-27-2013, 03:37 PM   #13
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Hard Start Kit a question general info


So back to my original question, but rephrased with the new input from BT.... how does one know if the TXV is balanced or not and equalizes pressure on shutdown or not? I can't hear any flow post shutdown so I assume it is not balancing... or is doing so extremely slowly.

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The external equalizer line, tells you nothing about weather it equalizes or not when the system shuts off. A balanced por/hard shut off TXV has an external equalizer line.
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Old 07-27-2013, 03:41 PM   #14
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Hard Start Kit a question general info


Either need to take the model number of the TXV and check it with the manufacturers listing on it. Or connect gauges to the system and see if it equalizes when shut off.

Most manufacturers are now using hard shut off TXVs, but I can't say all do.
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Old 07-27-2013, 04:06 PM   #15
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Yeah, it is getting REALLY complicated 2 know what is going on. I talked to a Lennox tech support guy and he said that tiny small bleed equalizer port will affect SEER so it is true they make hard shut off valves. All has to do with the almighty SEER rating and to get it from Ashrae. Personally I prefer orifices but in my climate our cooling costs are not that high. A basic Rheem with an ADP coil and orifice and it works great, few problems, may not be the prettiest gal at the dance but she will get you where you want to go.

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