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Old 02-16-2014, 06:48 AM   #1
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Grundfos15-42f pump trouble


Hi All.

This is my first post, so I hope I do everything right; if not, please be forgiving.

My furnace has a Grundfos 15-42f pump. One day I noticed that my rooms were cold, and the furnace seemed to fire up every two minutes.

I called the repair company for my furnace, as it is a rental. The tech came over, touched the boot on the top, and the furnace seemed to run fine for a day. Day later ... same thing... called them again, they came over and said that the boot where the power connects had lifted, and then left again.

Same thing happened last night. So I went down, fiddled with the power boot, and now, for the time being I have heat.

I have been all over the web to find a installation manual and can find many, but not for my model!

My question is: that boot where the ac power connects to the pump... is it something that can be lifted off and reseated... after turning off power to the furnace and letting the capacitor discharge!... or is it a hard connection with the plastic for insulation.

I'm tired of calling these guys, them fiddling, and then taking off, only to have the problem return. I frankly, and beginning to lose faith in them... but since they are the authorized contractors for this furnace, I have to get them. Or pay out of pocket. As things stand now, I have to take time unpaid off of work... and wait for them to show up!

Regards

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Old 02-16-2014, 07:41 AM   #2
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Grundfos15-42f pump trouble


Here is the install manual for your circ.
http://s3.pexsupply.com/product_file...155-instal.pdf

The electrical box/compartment should not be lifting off.

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Old 02-16-2014, 08:13 AM   #3
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Grundfos15-42f pump trouble


Hi beenthere.

Thank you for the document. I found this one earlier during my research, but the wiring doesn't look the same as what I have.

The wiring box is not "lifting off" (the whole unit). When I remove the cover plate, I see inside a red "terminal strip" with wires coming out of it that attach to the a.c. power.

I have attached a file... hopefully it comes through... and you can see the red strip I am talking about that needs to be "fiddled" with.

Perhaps this will help you better understand my quandary.

Regards
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Grundfos15-42f pump trouble-photo.jpg  
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Old 02-16-2014, 11:06 AM   #4
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Grundfos15-42f pump trouble


Intermitting problems can be a pain I had a job where the unit work fine when I was they then lockout @ night it took many try's to find the problem! The last thing a tech wants to do is go back on a job believe me.
It took time to find the problem a lot of time. They did not give up on me and I did not give up on them. Intermitting problems are a pain.
I do not think it is the pump could be a bad connection.
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Old 02-16-2014, 11:45 AM   #5
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Grundfos15-42f pump trouble


Hi there.

Being a tech (in a different field, granted) I understand the difficulty finding intermittant troubles.

However, when I go on site, I bring some tools, and spare parts for troubleshooting.

All I really need to know right now, is if I can kill the power, pull that red unit off and check / redo connections. I would prefer to be able to do this so I can confirm m suspicions.

Can the red connector just be pulled off (with power to the furnace turned off)... grin.

Regards
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Old 02-16-2014, 03:30 PM   #6
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Grundfos15-42f pump trouble


All of the models i work on have the quick connect push tabs, not the block that you have. So i don't know for sure. but I don't think you can remove it. I believe its parts of the seal to prevent water from coming out.
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Old 02-17-2014, 08:00 AM   #7
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*Being a tech (in a different field, granted) I understand the difficulty finding intermittant troubles
However, when I go on site, I bring some tools, and spare parts for troubleshooting.** you sound angry?
All I really need to know right now, is if I can kill the power, pull that red unit off and check / redo connections. I would prefer to be able to do this so I can confirm m suspicions.*

Look just replace the pump it cheep and you will sleep good.
I love the bit of tools thing.
You will need to bleed the lines to get out air boiler must be cold.
Then close all vale on lines run hose open on @ a time pulling up on water regulator let water run in and out the hose 10 mins or so repeat all lines.
or call someone who you will like *Being a tech (in a different field, granted)
I always found was a pain, they always know how to do your job better.
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Old 02-17-2014, 09:56 AM   #8
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Grundfos15-42f pump trouble


What your looking at there is the power head to the pump. Check the electrical connections via the wire nuts. It the connections are good, start looking at replacing the power head. You can change it without removing the pump body. There are four allen screws that hold the power head to the body. Its a 30 minute job at best.
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Old 02-17-2014, 10:00 AM   #9
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Grundfos15-42f pump trouble


Quote:
Originally Posted by azrael2000 View Post
and you can see the red strip I am talking about that needs to be "fiddled" with.
The red strip is a plug which is held in place with the wiring box itself. If you undo the screws holding the wiring box to the side of the pump (two if I remember correctly) the box will come off and you will be able to unplug that red strip and you will see a set of pins coming out of the pump. Those pins are the male side of the plug. The red strip is of course the female side. Most likely there is one or more pins making intermittent contact. Clean them up a little and bend them a fraction of an inch in another direction to make new contact.

I would also check those marrettes.

Last edited by Bob Sanders; 02-17-2014 at 10:02 AM.
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Old 02-18-2014, 11:14 AM   #10
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Grundfos15-42f pump trouble


Hi there.

No, I'm not angry, just ... confused? I am going on site to a trouble in a couple of days and bringing as many spares as I can corral. My Method of Operation...

I have checked the marettes and so did the techs (or so they said). I have asked them to replace the whole pump... I can't put a gun to anyone's head
It seems like they really don't want to. But where I live, Canada, in the winter, heat is kinda important. I don't want to have pipes breaking!

I have them coming over again today to work on this. And I had the company the furnace is being rented from putting a "no charge" on the order going to them. After all, I am renting the unit. And a pump, even though it isn't inside the furnace is essential for a gas boiler system.

I will let you know how things turn out.

Regards.
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Old 02-18-2014, 01:15 PM   #11
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Grundfos15-42f pump trouble


One thing.... I never feel I can do a job better than someone who was trained on the unit. When they come over, I keep my mouth shut, watch what they are doing and only assist when they ask for it.

I hate when people like to tell me what I am doing wrong when I am working (grin). That is the time, I hand them the tools and say "Go nuts... I defer to wisdom" (Sometimes the looks are priceless!)

:-)
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Old 02-19-2014, 06:53 AM   #12
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Well, the tech came over again last night, and looked at the item shown above, changed the marettes.

The heat went up, and last night, I thought I heard it doing the same thing it was doing previously.

Went out, turned up the thermostat, and nothing. Waited 10 minutes maxed out the thermostat and it seemed to start working again.

While thinking about this, I wondered... "Could the thermostat, not the pump be what is acting up?" It is one of the old Heil ones, with a slider and mercury contact.

To me this would make some sort of sense, as if the thermostat is going wonky, it might be saying "Hey I'm at 22C now" when it isn't.

So right now, I am researching a new programmable thermostat for the replacement.

Does what I think make sense? Or am I out in left field, and have to open yet another ticket. I keep asking them to replace the unit, but they seem to be ... unwilling...

Regards
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Old 02-19-2014, 09:51 AM   #13
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Grundfos15-42f pump trouble


I doubt the tstat is the problem. It turns on a relay to turn on the pump and the mercury ones never stick they just slow down and take longer to cut in and out and lose accuracy as the mercury hardens. In your first post you said the boiler was cutting in every two mins which means the pump was not running and the boiler was cycling on the high temp limit meaning the tstat was OK. If you have a rental authority I would complain to them. You should not have to put up with this after 2 service trips. Programmable tstat are not good for boilers as they need to run steady to provide even heat unlike a furnce which can recover quickly when setback, a boiler cannot.
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Old 02-19-2014, 12:20 PM   #14
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Could be the mercury in the stat is losing its conduction ability. Seen it on only a few mercury stats. I think it was caused by impure mercury when stats were made.

Or it could be the thermostat wires, circ relay, or circulator.
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Old 02-19-2014, 01:21 PM   #15
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Grundfos15-42f pump trouble


If the trouble returns, then I will call the company I am renting the furnace from, and make another ticket.

God has been kind and the weather since the trouble started has been getting warmer. (And the fact that I have 2 big south facing windows letting in heat helps).

I will keep you advised.

Thanks everyone for their comments and ideas.

Regards

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