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Old 03-01-2010, 12:38 PM   #1
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Goodman Heat Pump - Blower Motor


Hi all,

I have a frustrating situation that hopefully someone can help me with.

We have a Goodman Heat Pump (about 12 years old) with emergency heat unit on the inside. I am having problems with the blower fan within the air handler. (emergency heat doesn't work, so we're without heat at the moment except for wood stove) The problem began with the fan motor humming and trying to turn with minimal rotation. The fan turns freely by hand, so the bearings seem ok.

I replaced the run capacitor. Applied power and turned on the heat pump....nothing. I put the old cap back on the fan started right up. Install the new cap again and the fan started right up again. Standing there confused, I closed it up and thought everything was ok. The fan will run for approx. 10-15 minutes and then turn off prematurely before the house heats up.

I left the heat pump on, the fan started back up about 15 min later, ran for about the same, shuts off again. I tested the leads on the cap while the fan was running and I am getting about 250 VAC. I am assuming that the cap is not the problem.

Looking at the wiring schematic on the panel, I see that there is a BTDR -"Blower Time Delay Relay". When the fan is not running, heat pump is running, I can hear intermittent clicks in this relay and another mounted inside. Could this little relay be the culprit? Anyway of troubleshooting these relays? Anything else that I can check?

On a side note: The Emergency heat hasn't worked for years. Anything that I can check on this or is it basically a bad element? Or bad emergency heat relay?

Thanks for your assistance.

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Old 03-01-2010, 12:59 PM   #2
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Goodman Heat Pump - Blower Motor


The motor could be bad and tripping on a overload protector.

Or the board could be bad. I assume you have a clean filter ect?

I would take a reading of voltage at the lead connections on the board.

Measuring the cap voltage is giving you Back EMF . And it sounds low.

Should be higher. Voltage could be low. I am assuming a 220 volt supply to the air handler?

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Old 03-01-2010, 01:21 PM   #3
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Goodman Heat Pump - Blower Motor


Quote:
Originally Posted by hvaclover View Post
The motor could be bad and tripping on a overload protector.

Or the board could be bad. I assume you have a clean filter ect?

I would take a reading of voltage at the lead connections on the board.

Measuring the cap voltage is giving you Back EMF . And it sounds low.

Should be higher. Voltage could be low. I am assuming a 220 volt supply to the air handler?
Yes, clean filter. Can you direct me to which connections to take voltage readings from? I will post what readings I get. Sorry, the cap voltage was probably 350 range. Yes, 220 VAC supply.

So, probably not the small inexpensive relays?

Thank you for assisting me.
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Old 03-01-2010, 02:04 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FireFighter254 View Post
Yes, clean filter. Can you direct me to which connections to take voltage readings from? I will post what readings I get. Sorry, the cap voltage was probably 350 range. Yes, 220 VAC supply.

So, probably not the small inexpensive relays?

Thank you for assisting me.
follow the motor leads back to where they connect on the board.
Wiring diagram will tell you where on the board they connect.
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Old 03-01-2010, 06:50 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hvaclover View Post
follow the motor leads back to where they connect on the board.
Wiring diagram will tell you where on the board they connect.
Sorry for the delay, we have a major winter storm coming tomorrow and I had to prepare for that.

Firstly, there is not a circuit board within the unit. Only a screw terminal strip mounted within the cabinet.

I applied power via breakers to heat pump & fan, the fan started up immediatley. When running, it's very smooth, quiet and working as it should. This only last for max. of 5 minutes. Then, the motor begins slowing down, stops and hums. This will last approx. 3-5 min before all power is shut off to the fan motor by the unit itself. It will sit there for another 5 min or so, power is applied by the unit again and begins trying to start...fan moves very slowly, stops, hums then power shut down again by the unit. This cycle repeats itself until I flip the breakers. Sometimes, the motor will start again.

When the power is shut off to the motor by the unit (hum stops) the cap read 0.00 VAC.

Motor Leads:

Black to BTDR Relay on Terminal #1
Red to inline splice - unused/capped off
Purple to 30A breaker
(2) Brown to the cap

237 VAC between Black on BTDR and Purple on breaker - This was taken while motor stopped. I can get motor going again and take another reading if required.

Readings:

The cap read 305 VAC while the fan/motor was running smoothly.
The cap read 265 VAC while the fan was stopped/motor humming.
There is 240 VAC continuous at the 30A & 60A breakers in the unit.

Screw Terminals: These are the only wiring connections aside from the thermostat low voltage wiring and wiring to outside unit.

R - Red runs to #4 on transformer
G - Green runs to "H" on BTDR
W1/W2 - Brown runs to "M3" on relay sequencer
W2 - Yellow runs to M3 on relay sequencer
C - Blue runs to "H" on BTDR

Readings:

24.5 VAC between Yellow and Blue
25.5 VAC between Blue & Brown
25.3 VAC between Green & Blue
25.6 VAC between Red & Blue

Hopefully, I have retrieved enough info, if not, please let me know. It's gotta be something very simple I feel. My gut instinct directs me to the relay(s)...I don't know. If you guys help me solve this mystery, I'll buy you a steak dinner via gift certificate.

Thanks so much for your efforts in helping me out!
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Old 03-01-2010, 07:20 PM   #6
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Goodman Heat Pump - Blower Motor


Blower or loose 220v connection. make sure all 220v connection are tight and recheck voltage. If ok motor is gone.

Understand I am not there to check everything I normally would. But given the symptoms the probability of the motor being bad is high enough to make me call it.

Good luck.
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Old 03-01-2010, 07:49 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hvaclover View Post
Blower or loose 220v connection. make sure all 220v connection are tight and recheck voltage. If ok motor is gone.

Understand I am not there to check everything I normally would. But given the symptoms the probability of the motor being bad is high enough to make me call it.

Good luck.
Oh...no. It can never be a simple "cheap" part can it? I will run these checks tomorrow when I have more light in the basement. I don't need to remove motor correct? Meaning the wiring should all be hardwired into the motor itself. All I can check are the spade lug connections, etc. But will do. Just wanting to try everything possible so that I don't purchase parts I don't need or spend more than I need to.

Just to confirm, from what information I have given, the relays would not play a part or can go bad? Not second guessing you, you're the expert. I did a little checking online and those little relays are $70 anyway versus new motor. If it is the motor, do you have any online companies to purchase from that you would recommend? I bought the new cap from americanhvacparts.com
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Old 03-01-2010, 07:57 PM   #8
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If the relay was bad you would only have 1 leg of the 220. Since you have both legs feeding the motor then the motor is bad. Replace the motor and capacitor at the same time.
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Old 03-01-2010, 08:06 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Marty S. View Post
If the relay was bad you would only have 1 leg of the 220. Since you have both legs feeding the motor then the motor is bad. Replace the motor and capacitor at the same time.
Ahh...meaning when I take the reading from the relay side and the breaker side, I'd only be getting like 120? Cap's already been replaced, that was my 1st attempt of fixing this dilemma.
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Old 03-05-2010, 06:18 AM   #10
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Goodman Heat Pump - Blower Motor


On the other side of your issue...you mentioned you're electric emergency heat strips are not working...this could be anywhere from a thermostat issue to miswire, etc. But I have found a common among these furnaces, the thermal fuses (limits) that control the heat strips (usually inside the inner cover where the element terminals are) go defective telling the heat strips to stay off (breaking the 230v feed). With the power off to the furnace...with the power off to the furnace...unplug one leg of each thermal limit and use an ohmeter to test continuity. If there's no continuity...replace them. Your furnace could have 1, 2, or 3 of them. You can also ohm out your elements while you're in there. Isolate the elements by disconnecting the leads off of the thermal links (fuses) and ohming them out. Continuous...they're ok. Not...replace or restring. And I agree with hvaclover...it def sounds like your blower motor start windings are fried.

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