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Old 01-26-2011, 02:13 AM   #1
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Goodman Gas furnace will not light


My furnace is early 90's with old style pilot. I noticed a couple weeks ago my furnace was acting strange. When the cycle would start the flames would light and run for about 2 minutes go out and then the blower would turn on and after about 15 seconds(a click) then flames would re-ignite and finish normal. While it was during start-up I also could hear metal popping(stuck limit perhaps?).Now tonight the flames will not light at all...Im short on cash right now but looks like I will have to call a repairman tomorrow since I have 3 small children and its 25 degrees out tonight. Greatful for any Ideas!

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Old 01-26-2011, 03:11 AM   #2
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Goodman Gas furnace will not light


If you mean standing pilot than you have a bad limit or a a bad blower.

How recent has the filter been changed.

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Old 01-26-2011, 08:31 AM   #3
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Goodman Gas furnace will not light


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Originally Posted by hvaclover View Post
If you mean standing pilot than you have a bad limit or a a bad blower.

Yes its a standing pilot hvaclover, I'm thinking it may be the limit because the blower can be turned on manually. The only #'s I can make out is White-Rodgers limit 5D51-090... Is this something my repairman has to purchase or can I find it at the hardware store? Doesn't look to difficult to change. By the way I'm pretty sure he changed that 2 years ago.


How recent has the filer been changed.
I think you mean filter, and I just changed it before this started because when it gets dirty the furnace flame acts starved for air and go's out and comes on once in the middle of the cycle. So I changed it about once every month and a half and that fixed it.
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Old 01-26-2011, 09:43 AM   #4
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Goodman Gas furnace will not light


By the way I found the paperwork on the furnace from when I bought my house. Its a Janitrol Downflo FCE GD100-4 installed 1-17-1992 (I know need to upgrade just cant right now)
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Old 01-26-2011, 03:57 PM   #5
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Goodman Gas furnace will not light


if you have a down flow than there is a secondary limit in the blower compartment. It is in most cases a manual reset mounted to the blower housing.
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Old 01-26-2011, 07:44 PM   #6
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Goodman Gas furnace will not light


You are FREAKIN AWESOME hvaclover! I first looked inside the main draw vent at the blower motor but there was only 2 wire harness coming into the motor so I opened up the front panel again and located the limit on the side of the draft diverter panel and sure enough it was tripped so I reset. Its still doing the same thing as before where the flame go's out then back on after the blowers working but atleast we have heat tonight down to 22 degrees. I know there still is something wrong with it acting up so Im still going to have a repair man come out and take a look but at least with your help I'll know a bit more. THANK You so much!

Last edited by Landen; 01-26-2011 at 07:48 PM.
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Old 01-26-2011, 07:53 PM   #7
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Goodman Gas furnace will not light


Glad to hear it. Get it checked quick.
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Old 11-23-2011, 11:50 PM   #8
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Goodman Gas furnace will not light


Landen, did you solve the re-ignition issue after two minutes issue? I have the exact same problem, it's driving me nuts.

I've spent a few hours trying to debug my furnace. Technically it heats the house just fine, but I noticed the burners ignite twice during a heating cycle. It doesn't do it every time (it knows if I have a multimeter connected!), but let's say it does it 80% of the time.

Goodman GMP 075, 14 years old

time in seconds: status:
0 call for heat
3 inducer fan starts
10 hot surface ignitor glows
15 flame starts
45 recirculation blower starts
55 flames go out
65 igniter glows (again)
67 flames ignite
.
.
X thermostat is satisfied, call for heat is stopped, flames out
X+120 recirculation fan stops


This is the most typical behavior. For a while, the flames went out at somewhat random times during the first minute after heat was called for. The flames would go out, and the re-circulation fan would immediately come on.

At one point the diagnostic LED blinked 4 times, indicating an open high-limit sensor, but I put my multimeter across the limit sensor (while it was connected), and read 0 volts the entire time, even during the flame-out event, so it never opened according to my meter (it's a digital meter, which samples every 1/8th of a second or so). The LED did not blink an error code during this observation.

I cleaned the flame sensor at one point, and the problem seemed to go away for a week, at least I didn't notice it.

Bad ground? ground potential goes up when blower current comes on? nullifying the tiny voltage of the flame sensor? I have a two-wire electrical system (neutral is tied to ground at the meter).

Any hints? I've done research and not seen these symptoms anywhere. The high-limit sensor is a pita to replace, gas valve is in the way, and it's a 7" sensor. The flame sensor is easy to replace, but you guys already know that. I already tried a different thermostat too, same problem cropped up after a few cycles.

Flame sensor current is 2.5 to 3.2 micro amps (this measurement was taken when the system cycled properly however).


thanks for any hints!

-edfardos

ps) i have little hvac background, but i did read the service/repair manual for this unit, and I have a degree in computer science, and a background in electronics.
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Old 11-24-2011, 01:18 AM   #9
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Goodman Gas furnace will not light


Quote:
Originally Posted by edfardos View Post
Landen, did you solve the re-ignition issue after two minutes issue? I have the exact same problem, it's driving me nuts.

I've spent a few hours trying to debug my furnace. Technically it heats the house just fine, but I noticed the burners ignite twice during a heating cycle. It doesn't do it every time (it knows if I have a multimeter connected!), but let's say it does it 80% of the time.

Goodman GMP 075, 14 years old

time in seconds: status:
0 call for heat
3 inducer fan starts
10 hot surface ignitor glows
15 flame starts
45 recirculation blower starts
55 flames go out
65 igniter glows (again)
67 flames ignite
.
.
X thermostat is satisfied, call for heat is stopped, flames out
X+120 recirculation fan stops


This is the most typical behavior. For a while, the flames went out at somewhat random times during the first minute after heat was called for. The flames would go out, and the re-circulation fan would immediately come on.

At one point the diagnostic LED blinked 4 times, indicating an open high-limit sensor, but I put my multimeter across the limit sensor (while it was connected), and read 0 volts the entire time, even during the flame-out event, so it never opened according to my meter (it's a digital meter, which samples every 1/8th of a second or so). The LED did not blink an error code during this observation.

I cleaned the flame sensor at one point, and the problem seemed to go away for a week, at least I didn't notice it.

Bad ground? ground potential goes up when blower current comes on? nullifying the tiny voltage of the flame sensor? I have a two-wire electrical system (neutral is tied to ground at the meter).

Any hints? I've done research and not seen these symptoms anywhere. The high-limit sensor is a pita to replace, gas valve is in the way, and it's a 7" sensor. The flame sensor is easy to replace, but you guys already know that. I already tried a different thermostat too, same problem cropped up after a few cycles.

Flame sensor current is 2.5 to 3.2 micro amps (this measurement was taken when the system cycled properly however).


thanks for any hints!

-edfardos

ps) i have little hvac background, but i did read the service/repair manual for this unit, and I have a degree in computer science, and a background in electronics.
You have a dirty flame sensor......Landon has a much larger problem, a possible blocked flue at the least
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Old 11-25-2011, 08:17 PM   #10
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Goodman Gas furnace will not light


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Originally Posted by harleyrider View Post
You have a dirty flame sensor......Landon has a much larger problem, a possible blocked flue at the least
New sensor on order - thanks! Landon's noted two problems fwiw, his original issue matches mine perfectly. I can't speak to his "larger" problem :/. also, i tried cleaning the sensor with a copper srubby pad (gets lead out of gun barrels too, but doesn't scratch steel). It seemed well behaved for about a week... at least when I was watching it.

btw, i used a crappy multimeter (the only one i have that does microamps), and it measured 2.5-3.0 microamps out of the current flame sensor (spec is 1 to 4 micramps). Do flame sensors fade in and out over the course of a day? I never measured the flame sensor during a "flame out" event, so it doesn't surprise me the amperage was correct because the heater was running fine when I tested it.

My theory is that the flame sensor is already warm during the second ignition, which is why it stays on for the duration of the heat cycle. I also theorized that flames go out a few seconds after the blower because of the cool draft created in the top of the furnace?

I never heard a metalic "snap" during my flameout event, do the disc-type high-limit sensors make an audible click? Do they reset themselves within 30 seconds?

I'd call a pro, but it's so intermittent from day to day, it'd obviously work fine while the pro is here. It works most of the time when I have a multimeter connected to it. When it doens't work is when I'm laying in bed and can hear it re-ignite 30 seconds after the blower comes on :|.

thanks,
-edfardos

Last edited by edfardos; 11-25-2011 at 08:20 PM.
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Old 11-25-2011, 09:11 PM   #11
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Goodman Gas furnace will not light


Because your board also showed a faulty dignostic response I would check out a potential poor ground anywhere inside the furnace/ junction boxes/ all the way back to the house electrical panel.
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Old 11-26-2011, 06:35 PM   #12
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Goodman Gas furnace will not light


you should do a temperature rise measurement across the heat exchanger (differance between entering and leaving air temps) you may find its overheating although you did say the limits werent opening. the accepable temp rise should be stated on the rating plate
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Old 11-26-2011, 11:51 PM   #13
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Goodman Gas furnace will not light


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you should do a temperature rise measurement across the heat exchanger (differance between entering and leaving air temps) you may find its overheating although you did say the limits werent opening. the accepable temp rise should be stated on the rating plate
Yah, that's good advice, and I considered it except one time the burners only burned for about 5 seconds, then they went out and the blower turned on. That's the interesting thing, the blower *always* comes on if the flames go out if it's within the first 30 seconds after ignition. Of course the blower is already on after 30 seconds. I don't think the high-limit sensor would reach 160F in five seconds.

Flame out followed by an immediate blower-on is normal behavior for a high limit (manual says the control board will de-energize the gas valve and immediately turn on the blower if the high-limit switch opens). Plus I once witnessed the high-limit error code.

I also read on another forum that the Goodman board often falls back on a high-limit error code if it goes into a bad state (board freaks out).

Having said all that, since I unplugged and replugged the wiring harness that leads out of the control board, the furnace has not exhibited the "ignites twice during a cycle, and only twice" symptom for the last three days. I haven't watched it every time, but maybe the last 12 times.

A new flame sensor arrived, but I'm not gonna change it out until the furnace exhibits the symptom again (sleeping dogs lie, and all that).

thanks,
-edfardos

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