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Old 04-28-2009, 09:25 AM   #1
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gettting a new furnace help


the furnace in our home is over 25 yrs old, was thinking maybe about getting it replaced. a few questions,

how much does it cost for a furnace(price range and features)?
where to buy?
installation costs? or DIY?
and rebates or incentives currently offered by companies or government?
how much savings can i expect if i switch to a new higher efficiency furnace?

if i missed anything, lemme know thanks

v

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Old 04-29-2009, 05:43 AM   #2
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gettting a new furnace help


Vedia,
Where do you live.. I'm in Canada, between Buffalo and Detroit. I had an energy audit done entitling me to a total of $1200 joint government energy energy rebate for improving to +95% HE system, furnace only.
We also have a new Federal Gov't home improvement tax credit of 15% and a hydro credit for energy savings on the DC motor and another credit for aprgramable T stat. Total rebates and tax credits other than manufacturer were alsmost $2000.

Although your programs may be different where you live, ask about those items first.
More importantly my natural gas consumption, in a 35 year old custom brick and stucco , 2 story 1800 ft home has dropped by approx 35% over similar temp and time frames during the last 30 months, (so not just same month last year) I replaced the original low boy furnace which was 100,000 BTU and have been running with a programmable T stat for several years prior.
In the process I have sealed and re-insulated the rim joist in my unfinished basement and begun improving attic insulation to R 50 and increasing attic ventilation, however I would say the furnace is responsible for at least 30% fuel consumption savings based on calculations after reealing and prior to furnace upgrade.
I looked at 3 brands , York , Carrier and Lennox as well as Kenmore but gave up on Sears very fast as they were way overpriced on apples to apples comparrison and don't do their own installs.
I think am a fairly technically savy, detail oriented guy and the construction on these top 3 seemed very good along with the warranty, but more importantly I wanted a good installer who would back their workmanship.
Several companies manufacture the identical looking product under different labels so again I wanted an established long term service provider.
In the end I chose a Carrier due to an existing realtioonship with a supplier I trust. Lennox and York looked equally impressive but I lost confidence in one supplier and his in office, sight unseen "gauranteed quote" immediately which sent me right back to a guy I already knew.
Even so the workamnship was OK, but not to my standard. System runs fine, product does everything it should, but ducting was a bit out of skew.Here is the difference, I snet a photo, they came right back and remeasured and now they are calling me to see when they can come back to make it right..cosmetically.

So to some it up, my favorite display sign:

1. Low price
2. Great Product
3. Excellent service

You can pick any 2 out of 3.......

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Old 04-29-2009, 02:19 PM   #3
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gettting a new furnace help


i live in toronto canada, my gas bill is around 190/month for a 3 story home + basement. the insulation in the home is pretty poor too, is this gas usage normal?

what are the max amount of rebates and incentives i could get, i am not sure if i can afford to get a new furnace really

v
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Old 04-29-2009, 02:27 PM   #4
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how much does a typical furnace cost? i hope it is not too much, probably going to need to be heavily subsidized before i can afford one.

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Old 04-30-2009, 06:12 AM   #5
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Vedia, first off Relax.Good news I am in Waterloo. All the rebates I mentioned will apply to you depending on the efficiencey level of the furnace you chose.I have a 95% which gives me the maximum rebate.
If you have a provincial Energy audit done, it should be done by a recognised energy auditor, not a contractor, or slaesperson.. This should cost about $350 and you will get about $150 back ASAP. After home energy upgrades are complete you will have 18 months for reinspection another $150 and you can then claim rebates. With this audit , you will qualify for at least $600 and as high as $1,200 in rebates for the furnace alone. If you complete this work by Dec 31 you will also qualify for a 15% tax credit on your income tax, but the first $1000 of upgrades does not count, like a $1000 deductable....
Second, you have several tools to defer the payments. Your gas company may apply it to a bill, there is interest free and low rate financing available as well through several sources.
I am supplied by Union Gas. Your area will have different programs but I am happy to help. Send me a PM if you like for details.
To sart with identify the input and output on your furnace, before hand.
Mine read 100,000BTU in , 80,000BTU out. This gives an approximate size for consideration, meaning with my old furnace I was needing the 80,000 output if my home and furnace were matched correctly.
You will want to get 3 in home estimates, from comapnies with referals. These esitmate should include a review of the house and it`s whole heat system, not just a walk by the furnace.
There are good folks and hucksters. Check out the BBB reports and do not sign anything until you`re comfortable after carefully reviewing the bottom line. As you wait and shop the prices may drop...
My furnace, High efficiencey, with thermostat was priced between $3900 and $5700 depending on brand and installer... I spent just over $4200 plus GST for all components. My total Gov`t and hydro rebates will get me $1200 back, and I will have approx $700 more in income tax credits. So net cost will be just over $2500.
My gas consumption has dropped over 30% since mid January. Year round I expect at todays rates I will save $50 per month , averaged out. In addition my hydro consumption should drop as well due to the new low voltage furnace motor. My breakeven on the new furnace at todays`s gas rate will be about year 3.5. I have a full warranty for at laest 5 years so how could I lose
Cheap is not always good, service is most important. Not the the promise of service but the reputation for great service, especially if you`re on a tight budget and not mechanically inclined.
Send me a PM and I`ll give you some names you might consider. I had a very competative quote from on Toronto based company with an office here and a bad experience with another. Glad to share that info off line.
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Old 04-30-2009, 09:14 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vedia View Post
is this gas usage normal?
How many therms was that (it's on your bill), how many Heating Degree Days (maybe it's on your bill) for the period, how old is the house, how many square feet?
http://www.degreedays.net/

Last edited by Yoyizit; 04-30-2009 at 09:17 AM.
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Old 05-03-2009, 06:10 PM   #7
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i just checked and the HRTC is a non-refundable tax credit.... WTF....
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Old 05-05-2009, 05:58 PM   #8
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The HRTC is a bonus.
Here is what you need to know. Last year my old furnace consumed (March -April) 18 cubic meters per day, this year 95% efficient now uses 10 cubic meters per day. Even adjusted for warmer temp I am saving huge money by upgrading the furnace... and you will too!!!!! Get the quotes and start saving
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Old 05-05-2009, 06:03 PM   #9
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i don't make enough to qualify for the HRTC, that really sucks, what was the government thinking? low income individuals needs new furnace

Last edited by vedia; 05-05-2009 at 06:24 PM.
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Old 05-05-2009, 06:28 PM   #10
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gettting a new furnace help


Again I am with Union Gas. They are a gas supplier. But their sister company UNIION FINANCIAL OFFERS SEVERAL PROGRAMS FOR MONTHLY PAYMENTS. The city of Kitchener has their own utilities program and offers it to Kitchener residents.Your gas supplier may as well. Sears offered no big discounts but 3 years interest free. When pushed they dropped a bit in price but not much. Comparable units from their same supplier were substantially less but no 3 year payment plan.
You can likely get an 80 % efficient furnace between $2000 and $2500, possibly less. Your cost will be lower but the savings are less. Either way you can still qualify for an energy rebate. Contact your local utilities company, they may have a program for fixed income individuals , etc.
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Old 05-05-2009, 07:21 PM   #11
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gettting a new furnace help


Ontario! The home of all the Gentlemen's Clubs that would be Illegal in Mi!
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Old 05-10-2009, 10:27 AM   #12
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Vedia,
May gas bill just in , using +- 6 cubic meters per day in April. Average consumption down more than 32% over the past 3 months from previous furnace. You can't loose if you do your homework. Even if this furnace dies the day the warranty expires I will have saved $
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Old 05-10-2009, 10:44 AM   #13
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Average house energy loss by some method is 4.4 BTU/sq. ft./HDD, with sq. footage including the basement.
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Old 05-10-2009, 11:31 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoyizit View Post
Average house energy loss by some method is 4.4 BTU/sq. ft./HDD, with sq. footage including the basement.

So what would a 2,000 sq ft rancher, with a 2,000 sq ft basement come out to.

In an area with 5,560 HDDs???

What would a 2,400 sq ft 2 story with a 1,200 sq ft basement come out to, at the same 5,560 HHD's???
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Old 05-10-2009, 02:09 PM   #15
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So I used 398.7 cubic meters, Feb - 28 day billing period with 664.10 degree days. House is 2800 ft including unfinished 1100 ft basement basement, 80,000BTU HE furnace rated 95% efficient. How much am I losing?
I fine tuned the programmable TStat in March

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