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-   -   ge ecm 2.3 motor failed magnet glue. (http://www.diychatroom.com/f17/ge-ecm-2-3-motor-failed-magnet-glue-151478/)

bobinphx 07-25-2012 10:01 AM

ge ecm 2.3 motor failed magnet glue.
 
5 ton rudd heatpump with ge ecm 2.3 motor. indoor blower motor started to make scraping noise. Pulled motor and found that the glue that holds the magnets to the stator had failed. It would appear that the glue was put on in ribbons and that there were voids between the stator and the magnets in the glue. System was built in 2007. Lucky for the owner that it was replaced under warranty. interesting part was that the bill showed 1200 dollars to replace. that included new motor and labor, all of which was written off, so no charge to the HO. Still... .1200 for a motor (isntalled)!!!!!!!!!!!!! and its a package unit on a one story!!!
three screws and the fan assembly was out and on the ground. setscrew on the fan cage, three more on the motor mount and then reverse the procedure with a new motor... less then 1 hour from truck roll up to paperwork.

what happned to the days when you could have a motor rewound and new bearings put in for cheaper then a new motor??? LOL (shows how old I am!!!) last one I had done, years ago, 23.95 for new bearings, installed in the end caps!! 1200 bucks... wow...

research on these motors found that there were issues with the glue that have since been corrected... lets hope this one lasts longer then 5 years!!!!

Marty S. 07-25-2012 11:42 AM

Yep those ecm motors are crazy expensive. Mine is nearly 700 wholesale

beenthere 07-25-2012 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobinphx (Post 973873)
Still... .1200 for a motor (isntalled)!!!!!!!!!!!!! and its a package unit on a one story!!!

Yep, they aren't cheap.

scottmcd9999 07-26-2012 07:13 AM

Quote:

three screws and the fan assembly was out and on the ground. setscrew on the fan cage, three more on the motor mount and then reverse the procedure with a new motor... less then 1 hour from truck roll up to paperwork.
You forgot about the 30+ mile round trip to the parts house, and the 1/2 hour wait to get the motor, the 1/2 hour wait to get the programmer setup and the program installed on the new motor, and the warranty labor that the contractor would have to supply if the ECM failed again (don't think the manufacturer will pay that), and the fact that the contractor would like to keep the lights on for another month ...

bobinphx 07-26-2012 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottmcd9999 (Post 974582)
You forgot about the 30+ mile round trip to the parts house, and the 1/2 hour wait to get the motor, the 1/2 hour wait to get the programmer setup and the program installed on the new motor, and the warranty labor that the contractor would have to supply if the ECM failed again (don't think the manufacturer will pay that), and the fact that the contractor would like to keep the lights on for another month ...


all true... all true... and I have heard this before. so I guess it begs the question what is the hourly "run rate" (as we used to call it) that is necessary (rule of thumb) to keep the lights on and moma and the babies fed??? just curious here, not wanting to start any issues... is it 20 bucks and hour take home or 100 or some place in between. and I do realize that regional location and life style ect do play a part... just curious.

scottmcd9999 07-26-2012 03:22 PM

My break even rate is around $60/hr. That means with me just paying the bills - no savings, no retirement, no additional investment in new trucks, tools etc. I have to charge quite a bit more to cover things like that.

I've also been in the field for almost 25 years, and have a wealth of training and experience that I bring to your door. You can't put a price on something like that, but we're asked to do it every day.

We use flat rate pricing for most repairs. Something like an ECM motor replacement out of warranty would be around $1200 or so. In warranty we'd be around $300.

Don't get me wrong - there are a LOT of crooks out there in the HVAC field. But to categorically state that XXX dollars for YYY repair is too much simply because YOU don't feel like it should be that much is just wrong.

Yoyizit 07-26-2012 03:51 PM

http://www.nailor.com/pdf/ECM_1.pdf
How soon is the cost difference paid back if the HO saves 67% in energy costs? >10 years is probably the same as "never".

beenthere 07-26-2012 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoyizit (Post 974929)
http://www.nailor.com/pdf/ECM_1.pdf
How soon is the cost difference paid back if the HO saves 67% in energy costs? >10 years is probably the same as "never".

The annual savings can vary from 60 to 350 bucks a year, depending on the customers usage of fan on, and how well the duct system is designed.

While 60 bucks a year doesn't add up to much, on the higher end $3,500.00 in 10 years is a nice chunk of change to save.

bobinphx 07-26-2012 04:36 PM

I didnt mean to say that it was wrong.... that was not my intent. My intent was to say "wow" things have changed. And now that I understand that 60 per hour is a minimum to just get buy on.. well that does change things in my mind.

but then again, gas at 3.50 shocks me everytime I fill up!!!! so all things equal, I guess times have changed... and I need to get that through my head!!!!

beenthere 07-26-2012 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobinphx (Post 974954)
I didnt mean to say that it was wrong.... that was not my intent. My intent was to say "wow" things have changed. And now that I understand that 60 per hour is a minimum to just get buy on.. well that does change things in my mind.

but then again, gas at 3.50 shocks me everytime I fill up!!!! so all things equal, I guess times have changed... and I need to get that through my head!!!!

Yep, gasoline isn't 28 cents a gallon anymore.
A glass of beer isn't 15 cents anymore.
A loaf of bread isn't 20 cents anymore.

Yoyizit 07-27-2012 08:45 AM

And you used to be able to make a phone call by "punching a nickel."
You put a nickel in the slot and as it is dropping through, you hit the coin return.
If you timed it right you got a dial tone.

raylo32 07-27-2012 08:51 AM

Scott,

Just for us HO's and DIY's information why do these motors need "programming"?



Quote:

Originally Posted by scottmcd9999 (Post 974582)
You forgot ....., the 1/2 hour wait to get the programmer setup and the program installed on the new motor ...


scottmcd9999 07-27-2012 08:58 AM

Different manufacturer's have different setups. The motor is common across most brands, but the program is different depending on the manufacturer. Most of our distributors around here stock the base motor and will program it to suit the system it's being installed into. This allows the distributors to stock a single motor for most applications.

You can always purchase the OEM motor from the distrubitor, of course, and if it's a warranty item that's what you'd get. But for out of warranty replacements, often a stock programmed motor is a less expensive alternative.

raylo32 07-27-2012 09:30 AM

So the program lives on a ROM chip or somesuch and would specify what speeds the motor would run when the board calls for high, low, or some variable % based on the board's jumper positions? Maybe also defines the ramp up rate when starting or changing speeds?


Quote:

Originally Posted by scottmcd9999 (Post 975392)
Different manufacturer's have different setups. The motor is common across most brands, but the program is different depending on the manufacturer. Most of our distributors around here stock the base motor and will program it to suit the system it's being installed into. This allows the distributors to stock a single motor for most applications.

You can always purchase the OEM motor from the distrubitor, of course, and if it's a warranty item that's what you'd get. But for out of warranty replacements, often a stock programmed motor is a less expensive alternative.


scottmcd9999 07-27-2012 09:39 AM

The motors have a module mounted to the back of the motor. That's the logic system, but I'm not sure which services it manages vs which services are managed by other components in the system. If I had to take a guess, I'd say the ramp up/down and the "steps" are managed by the module, but other features (i.e. delay on/off, etc) are managed by other components in the system.

BTW, many times the failure in the motor is just that module, and not the motor itself. In some cases, we've been able to just swamp controllers and had the motor work fine. I wouldn't recommend it for warranty work, of course, but when that thing goes out of warranty it might be worthwhile to consider module-only replacement (depending on cost, of course).


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