Gas Furnace Replacement Questions - HVAC - Page 2 - DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum


Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > HVAC

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-05-2013, 10:41 AM   #16
An old Tradesmen
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: PA
Posts: 26,421
Rewards Points: 4,488
Default

Gas Furnace Replacement Questions


Quote:
Originally Posted by carmon View Post
bye 3/4 of an 80.....
3/4 of 80 is 60.

Advertisement

beenthere is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to beenthere For This Useful Post:
carmon (01-07-2013)
Old 01-05-2013, 11:23 AM   #17
Roofmaster
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Maryland
Posts: 3,669
Rewards Points: 2,096
Default

Gas Furnace Replacement Questions


A Question for the Pros: Is the glowing red hot HSI figured in the efficiency rating of a furnace? I cannot see for the life of me how a dead short every time the furnace starts can be considered efficient, especially if the furnace short cycles. Elements that get red hot from resistance spin an electric meter like a top.
__________________
" A lot of men build things, and a lot of things fall down "

jagans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2013, 11:46 AM   #18
An old Tradesmen
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: PA
Posts: 26,421
Rewards Points: 4,488
Default

Gas Furnace Replacement Questions


The HSI uses about 3 watts in 30 seconds. Or the same as 6-60 watt incandescent lights on for 30 seconds.
beenthere is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2013, 10:39 PM   #19
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 147
Rewards Points: 75
Default

Gas Furnace Replacement Questions


So the local father and son outfit came back with the price for a new furnace. Actually, they never did get back to me - I called them tonight. The guy said he mailed the estimate...but it never made it to me. I live 3 blocks away : )

I asked him to just relay the info over the phone so he did. They gave me four options:

York Single Stage Model # g8s060a12mp11 - $2688
York 2 Stage Model #: tm8v060a12mp11 $3295
Goodman Single Stage - $2500 (I didn't get a model #)
Goodman 2 Stage - $2674

All units come with 5 yr parts/2 yr labor/20 year heat exchanger warranty

I was stoked about these prices until I told him I'd look up the York models online and get back to him....that's when I found out that these are 80% efficient models. I had told them when they were here I was looking for a high-efficiency 2 stage model. I plan on being in this house for at least 10 more years.

To recap from the original post, here were the other estimates from the other companies I had out:

Contractor A:
Bryant 80,000 BTU, 96% 2-Stage with an X-13 High Efficient Motor (Model # 925TA048080S17)
$4600

Contractor B:
Bryant 100,000 BTU, 95% 2-Stage "with high efficiency ECM blower motor" (Model # 925TA48100E21)
$4700 ($200 coupon brings down to $4500)

Contractor C:
System 1: Carrier Comfort Series, single stage burner, standard fan 92% (Model #59SC2A100)
$3748

System 2:
Carrier 59TP5A100E21
2 stage burner
96.7% AFUE
single speed blower
$5420.00

System #3:
Carrier 59TN6A100V21
2 stage burner
96.7% AFUE
Variable speed blower
$5907.00

I'm pretty sold on the 2 stage option, as the last couple of weeks I've noticed that the current 80% 1 stage furnace heats the house quickly and then when it's off, the house feels noticeably cold, and then the cycle repeats.

As of now, I'm thinking Option A: the 80k BTU 96% Bryant for $4600. I emailed the guy and asked if he would honor the $200 coupon from the other place and am hoping he will. If so, that would bring it down to $4600, plus a $300 utility company rebate (just got notice in the mail today, with the utility bill, that the rebate only applies to 95%+ Energy Saver furnaces, effective the start of this year).

What do you guys think?
mark2741 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2013, 10:51 PM   #20
An old Tradesmen
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: PA
Posts: 26,421
Rewards Points: 4,488
Default

Gas Furnace Replacement Questions


Sounds ok. Being 2 stage you will get better comfort. but at 80,000 BTUs, its probably still over sized.

The guy that gave you prices on 80% equipment was only installing 60,000 BTU furnaces.
beenthere is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2013, 12:58 AM   #21
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: winnipeg manitoba canada
Posts: 779
Rewards Points: 500
Default

Gas Furnace Replacement Questions


80% really..... they still make those gas guzzlers.......:whistling2 :
carmon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2013, 01:30 AM   #22
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 636
Rewards Points: 500
Default

Gas Furnace Replacement Questions


Quote:
Originally Posted by carmon
80% really..... they still make those gas guzzlers.......:whistling2 :
Not every country can be as perfect as Canada.
hvac benny is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to hvac benny For This Useful Post:
HVAC1000 (01-09-2013)
Old 01-09-2013, 12:25 AM   #23
Experienced HVAC Tech
 
HVAC1000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Northern Colorado
Posts: 357
Rewards Points: 250
Default

Gas Furnace Replacement Questions


yeah and not even all of the U.S.A. is illegalizing 80%ers but hey somewhere has got to remain the wild west
HVAC1000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2013, 11:27 AM   #24
Roofmaster
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Maryland
Posts: 3,669
Rewards Points: 2,096
Default

Gas Furnace Replacement Questions


In this day of rising energy costs, and the threat of Global warming, why would anyone hurry up and use an 80% efficient furnace, when 95% + Furnaces are out there? The payback on an additional 1k or so has to be about 3 years? Going 80% seems extremely short sighted to me.

The intake and exhaust for HE is 3 inch PVC. Relatively Inexpensive.
My HE had an elaborate condensate line run all over the place. I took my trusty Hilti TE-12 and drilled a 1/2 inch hole down through my basement floor. Caulked a plastic container to the floor to catch the condensate, done. Most basement floors have clean stone under the slap that can easily take the clear water condensate from a furnace.

However: Considering the posts I have read in the HVAC forum here, and the increased complexity of HE furnaces with variable speed motors, multi stage gas valves, multiple pressure switches, there seems to be a precipitous drop in reliability, probably due to the manufacturers trying to drive down the price of these components. Chinese motors, thin copper tubing, etc, etc. is sure to increase the amount of service work for HVAC literate techs. Looks like a bright future for an HVAC tech that stays up on all the latest problems.

Is anyone creating a data base of specific problems based on MFGR?
__________________
" A lot of men build things, and a lot of things fall down "

jagans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2013, 04:21 PM   #25
An old Tradesmen
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: PA
Posts: 26,421
Rewards Points: 4,488
Default

Gas Furnace Replacement Questions


Quote:
In this day of rising energy costs, and the threat of Global warming, why would anyone hurry up and use an 80% efficient furnace, when 95% + Furnaces are out there? The payback on an additional 1k or so has to be about 3 years? Going 80% seems extremely short sighted to me.
there are those areas that only need heat for a few weeks, or the outdoor temps are very mild, and a 90% furnace would take 10 or more years just to recover the additional cost of the 90%er.
beenthere is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2013, 11:29 PM   #26
Experienced HVAC Tech
 
HVAC1000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Northern Colorado
Posts: 357
Rewards Points: 250
Default

Gas Furnace Replacement Questions


Quote:
Originally Posted by jagans
In this day of rising energy costs, and the threat of Global warming, why would anyone hurry up and use an 80% efficient furnace, when 95% + Furnaces are out there? The payback on an additional 1k or so has to be about 3 years? Going 80% seems extremely short sighted to me.

The intake and exhaust for HE is 3 inch PVC. Relatively Inexpensive.
My HE had an elaborate condensate line run all over the place. I took my trusty Hilti TE-12 and drilled a 1/2 inch hole down through my basement floor. Caulked a plastic container to the floor to catch the condensate, done. Most basement floors have clean stone under the slap that can easily take the clear water condensate from a furnace.

However: Considering the posts I have read in the HVAC forum here, and the increased complexity of HE furnaces with variable speed motors, multi stage gas valves, multiple pressure switches, there seems to be a precipitous drop in reliability, probably due to the manufacturers trying to drive down the price of these components. Chinese motors, thin copper tubing, etc, etc. is sure to increase the amount of service work for HVAC literate techs. Looks like a bright future for an HVAC tech that stays up on all the latest problems.

Is anyone creating a data base of specific problems based on MFGR?
Yes but when you are selling these units to customers they do not necessary see the benefits to overcome the additional $2000 after installation (we need to make money too, 90%ers take longer to install so we need to charge more for our time and knowledge and additional material) , especially if it is a rental house, why would the landlord volunteer the extra money if they don't even get the benefits of it or pay the utility bills for it.
PVC may be easy and inexpensive to run in a crawl space attic or unfinished basement but running new pipes in a finished basement it is one of the most frustrating things you will ever do.
And in my area and I'm sure many other areas it is illegal to just dump condensate in a hole in the concrete of your basement.
Yes the cheap manufacturing of parts may generate multiple service calls but if you installed the unit then it makes you look bad for installing something that keeps breaking. And if you have to keep coming back even if it is for different part that break it still makes it look like you didn't fix it. Even though you did. Also at my company at least we give warranties on installations so we wouldn't be making money on the fixes anyway. This is just me but I enjoy installing quality equipment that doesn't break and doesn't make the customer go broke. 90 s are great but 80s are a real easy to install dependable workhorse.
HVAC1000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2013, 12:17 AM   #27
Member
 
Missouri Bound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Almost Arkansas
Posts: 2,764
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Gas Furnace Replacement Questions


Quote:
Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
The HSI uses about 3 watts in 30 seconds. Or the same as 6-60 watt incandescent lights on for 30 seconds.

huh?
__________________
Do you want it your way or the right way?
Missouri Bound is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2013, 05:34 AM   #28
An old Tradesmen
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: PA
Posts: 26,421
Rewards Points: 4,488
Default

Gas Furnace Replacement Questions


Quote:
Originally Posted by Missouri Bound View Post
huh?
Thats how much electric it uses. Some use a little more, some use a little less.

Do the math your self. 120 volts supply, 80 ohms of resistance. 30 seconds that its energized.
beenthere is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2013, 12:36 PM   #29
Member
 
Missouri Bound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Almost Arkansas
Posts: 2,764
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Gas Furnace Replacement Questions


Quote:
Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
Thats how much electric it uses. Some use a little more, some use a little less.

Do the math your self. 120 volts supply, 80 ohms of resistance. 30 seconds that its energized.
Oh I can do the math....just can't see how 3 watts in 30 seconds can be the same as 6-60 watts in 30 seconds. No math makes that work.
__________________
Do you want it your way or the right way?
Missouri Bound is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2013, 01:32 PM   #30
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Manitoba, Canada
Posts: 343
Rewards Points: 266
Default

Gas Furnace Replacement Questions


6x60 = 360 watts/hr /60 min = 6 watts/min
3 watts in 30 sec = 6 watts/min

looks the same to me

Advertisement

HVACDave is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to HVACDave For This Useful Post:
beenthere (01-10-2013)
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Some questions regarding furnace replacement Allears HVAC 3 05-27-2012 03:26 AM
Why might current PVC pipe be unusable for replacement furnace? Vaandjay HVAC 18 12-21-2010 11:11 PM
Are "Genuine OEM" replacement parts necessary for a furnace? hvacdiy HVAC 3 11-19-2010 10:09 AM
replacement part for Aire-flo furnace? BlueBSH HVAC 9 09-14-2010 09:41 AM
Advice needed. Complete Furnace & duct replacement - asbestos ductwrap (crawl space) vestaviascott HVAC 11 03-10-2009 06:40 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts