Gas Furnace Replacement Questions - HVAC - DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum


Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > HVAC

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-04-2013, 11:02 AM   #1
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 147
Rewards Points: 75
Default

Gas Furnace Replacement Questions


I posted a month or so back when my gas furnace went kaput due to a crossover tube that was snapped in two. I checked with York and several online parts dealers and they confirmed what the service company said: the part was out of stock and obsolete/no longer produced.

I had it welded back together and then reinstalled it and the furnace is now working, but with it being 23 years old and me not wanting to go through this ordeal when the next part breaks, I've gotten estimates for a new furnace to be installed. I considered heavily going DIY but it's not a good option given me/my situation. While I'm handy, I'm just not comfortable going that route.

I've received too many estimates, but there were a couple that seemed so out of the park price-wise/goofy salesman types that I just disregarded them outright.

I'm in the Philadelphia, PA suburbs. 2300 sq ft house - 2 floor colonial.
Existing furnace is 96k BTU, single stage York, 80% efficiency.

Here are the estimates I've received (all are 'complete' prices including new chimney liner for gas hot water heater, new return drop, condensate pump, thermostat, etc.):

Contractor A:
Bryant 80,000 BTU, 96% 2-Stage with an X-13 High Efficient Motor (Model # 925TA048080S17)
$4600

Contractor B:
Bryant 100,000 BTU, 95% 2-Stage "with high efficiency ECM blower motor" (Model # 925TA48100E21)
$4700

** Note that both estimates are for Bryant Model 925T. What do the remaining numbers mean? Bryant's website only shows the 925T designation/model, so I'm assuming these are both the same furnace, only the additional numbers are due to the BTU difference?

Contractor C:
System 1: Carrier Comfort Series, single stage burner, standard fan 92% (Model #59SC2A100)
$3748

System 2:
Carrier 59TP5A100E21
2 stage burner
96.7% AFUE
single speed blower
$5420.00

System #3:
Carrier 59TN6A100V21
2 stage burner
96.7% AFUE
Variable speed blower
$5907.00

I am waiting on one more contractor - a father & son company (they live just a few blocks from me). They came out the other day and they were the ones who installed the existing furnace in the house. I expect to get an estimate from them within the next few days. They didn't really say much aside from reminiscing about the family that lived in my house before and when they installed the existing furnace back in 1989 : ) They seemed a little goofy and have a reputation for being a little gruff, but they're right nearby so if I needed service that would be a big plus. And the furnace they installed lasted 23 years so I am very interested to see what they come back with in terms of equipment/price.

Question #1:
The two contractors proposing a Bryant 925T furnace are differing in their BTU calc. One came in insisting that a 2-stage 80k BTU is the way to go, and then did his measurements and said he would confirm it when he inputted the measurements into the computer and let me know. A few days later I received the estimate for the 80k BTU. The other Bryant company came in, did his measurements, said he would input into the computer, and then estimated a 100k BTU 2-stage furnace. Why the difference? Unfortunately the other guys all said they would measure and do the calc *after* a commitment is made. They said basically that they estimate high (100k BTU) and then drop some if the actual BTU calc is lower.

I'm most comfortable with both of the Bryant estimates in terms of price and the guys that I spoke with. Problem is, they have the 20k BTU difference in size recommendation. Is that a major concern one way or the other? My existing 96k single stage furnace heats the house VERY quickly. For example, when it broke and was off for a day, the house temp dropped down to 61 degrees. When it was turned back on, it had the temp back up to 71 degrees in less than 10 or 15 minutes. So I'm leaning towards the 80k BTU being more appropriate, but with a 2-stage system does it really matter?

Question #2:
I really don't have the cash right now to get a matched air conditioner installed with the furnace. I *could* finance it but would like to wait if it makes sense. I've heard varying opinions: one contractor keeps telling me that I should go ahead and replace both. Others have said that the air conditioner, which is about 10 years old, should have another 3 to 5 years of good life left in it and that it would be a waste of money to replace it now/early. I see benefit in replacing it now but due to the cash situation I'd rather not. Is that a mistake? I realize it will likely be another $500 to $1000 extra when I have them replace it in 3 to 5 years, but that's acceptable to me. I replaced the condenser fan motor this past Spring, along with the capacitor, so I think it's probably in good shape for at least a few more years.

Thanks in advance for any advice, and sorry for the long detailed post, but I figure more info is better : )

Advertisement

mark2741 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 11:18 AM   #2
Roofmaster
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Maryland
Posts: 3,669
Rewards Points: 2,096
Default

Gas Furnace Replacement Questions


Lets see what the Goofy Guys say. 23 years of good service speaks for itself IMHO. Besides, you have to be a little goofy after sniffing Gas fumes for a number of years.

Advertisement

__________________
" A lot of men build things, and a lot of things fall down "

jagans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 05:51 PM   #3
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Lansing,MI
Posts: 172
Rewards Points: 152
Default

Gas Furnace Replacement Questions


925ta48080s17 925= series,t=two stage, cant remember what the a is,48 is blower size 4 ton,80 is btus 80,000, 17 is 17 inch wide.Bryant changed there numbering system, and I have sat down to study them yet.Basicly they have a 95% single stage with speed tap ecm motor,95% two stage with speedtap ecm motor,95% two stage with a variable speed ecm motor, and a 95% modulating burner with variable speed ecm motor.As far as proper sizing goes some guys still do the ole rule of thumb way and some take the time and do a true heatloss calculation.Bigger isnt always better.
HVACTECH96 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 08:22 PM   #4
Member
 
Missouri Bound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Almost Arkansas
Posts: 2,764
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Gas Furnace Replacement Questions


Option B seems to be the most practical for you and what I would choose. (here's where I will get the flak) EVEN if tht unit is a bit oversized, and it probably is, it will function at a lesser btu rate when the thermostat is nearly up to temperature. It may run that way all the time once the initial temp is reached. This is a good feature if you use set-back because you have high fire to bring it back up to temp. and low fire to maintain on warmer days. And there is nothing wrong with getting several extimates as long as you do the required research to figure out what the extimates didn't tell you......and it looks like you are doing that.
__________________
Do you want it your way or the right way?
Missouri Bound is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 09:03 PM   #5
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 493
Rewards Points: 346
Default

Gas Furnace Replacement Questions


Holy cow! At those prices I'm glad I learned at a young age how to do this stuff myself, I could never afford to pay someone that kind of money.

I'm in shock, didnt know people charged those kind of prices for furnace changeouts!
sammy37 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 09:04 PM   #6
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 493
Rewards Points: 346
Default

Gas Furnace Replacement Questions


But at the same time dont flame me, I do support contractors needing to make a profit, pay bills, shop rent, buy tools and support their families.
sammy37 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 10:20 PM   #7
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: winnipeg manitoba canada
Posts: 779
Rewards Points: 500
Default

Gas Furnace Replacement Questions


$ 4000.00 and up is very standard in this area for a 2 stage variable speed furnace..... more if it needs lots of metal work.....
carmon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2013, 12:06 AM   #8
Experienced HVAC Tech
 
HVAC1000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Northern Colorado
Posts: 357
Rewards Points: 250
Default

Gas Furnace Replacement Questions


just out of curiosity are you wanting to upgrade to a 90%+? if so then ya those $4000 prices are in the ballpark. but keeping it an 80%er would cut the price to a bit more than half.
HVAC1000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2013, 12:11 AM   #9
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: winnipeg manitoba canada
Posts: 779
Rewards Points: 500
Default

Gas Furnace Replacement Questions


80% really............. not allowed here...... 93% for retro and 95% for new homes.....
carmon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2013, 12:21 AM   #10
Experienced HVAC Tech
 
HVAC1000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Northern Colorado
Posts: 357
Rewards Points: 250
Default

Gas Furnace Replacement Questions


oh ok i apologize i did not know the Canadian regulation, in the states we are getting a mandate from the Department of Energy making it illegal to sell or install anything below 93%. However this is only in the northern states ( http://gilsonusa.com/sites/all/theme...ceFurnace1.pdf ) but it doesnt take effect until May 1st of this brand new year. but i guess it all depends on where Mark2741 is located.
HVAC1000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2013, 12:24 AM   #11
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: winnipeg manitoba canada
Posts: 779
Rewards Points: 500
Default

Gas Furnace Replacement Questions


I loved 80% furnaces....... never thought I would ever sell a hi efficient..... well in the last 4 years sold 400 hi efficient..... hope they never quit....lol
carmon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2013, 12:33 AM   #12
Experienced HVAC Tech
 
HVAC1000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Northern Colorado
Posts: 357
Rewards Points: 250
Default

Gas Furnace Replacement Questions


yes i really like hi efficient ones too they can just add up really fast on the customer from running a new flue and usually a combustion air pipe too plus having to figure out how to dispose of condensate other than that though i love them but the 80s are just soooo easy to change out i will definitely miss them later. so we are telling our customers to buy cheaper while they still can unless they want to upgrade. we've gotten a lot more sales.
HVAC1000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2013, 12:37 AM   #13
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: winnipeg manitoba canada
Posts: 779
Rewards Points: 500
Default

Gas Furnace Replacement Questions


I hear ya... we have no choice here...... hi all the way..... installs are a pain......
carmon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2013, 10:05 AM   #14
An old Tradesmen
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: PA
Posts: 26,570
Rewards Points: 4,778
Default

Gas Furnace Replacement Questions


Quote:
Originally Posted by Missouri Bound View Post
Option B seems to be the most practical for you and what I would choose. (here's where I will get the flak) EVEN if tht unit is a bit oversized, and it probably is, it will function at a lesser btu rate when the thermostat is nearly up to temperature. It may run that way all the time once the initial temp is reached. This is a good feature if you use set-back because you have high fire to bring it back up to temp. and low fire to maintain on warmer days. And there is nothing wrong with getting several extimates as long as you do the required research to figure out what the extimates didn't tell you......and it looks like you are doing that.
Over sized 2 stage furnaces use more fuel then a correctly sized single stage, and don't provide any better comfort. In first stage they are less efficient then in second stage. Savings from a 2 stage comes from a slow even heat through out the house, not quick on off time.

Getting the right sized 2 stage so it has long run times in first stage makes a house much more comfortable, and saves fuel. Since most people don't need to set the temp as high due to the constant low heat.

Rapid recovery isn't as good of a thing as most think.

My own furnace takes 70+/_ minutes(depending on wind conditions) to recover 11 degrees when its in the low 20s outside. Once recovered it still has long run times and the house stays a very even heat through out.


The OPs house probably only needs a 70,000 95%er, but many brands don't make a size between 60,000 and 80,000.
beenthere is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2013, 10:20 AM   #15
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: winnipeg manitoba canada
Posts: 779
Rewards Points: 500
Default

Gas Furnace Replacement Questions


bye 3/4 of an 80.....

Advertisement

carmon is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Some questions regarding furnace replacement Allears HVAC 3 05-27-2012 03:26 AM
Why might current PVC pipe be unusable for replacement furnace? Vaandjay HVAC 18 12-21-2010 11:11 PM
Are "Genuine OEM" replacement parts necessary for a furnace? hvacdiy HVAC 3 11-19-2010 10:09 AM
replacement part for Aire-flo furnace? BlueBSH HVAC 9 09-14-2010 09:41 AM
Advice needed. Complete Furnace & duct replacement - asbestos ductwrap (crawl space) vestaviascott HVAC 11 03-10-2009 06:40 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts