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Old 01-10-2017, 02:06 PM   #1
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Furnace issue , maybe someone has had this issue before ?


FLAME MASTER - 1988 - old unit will get a new one this summer just want to get through this cold snap.

I've had issues with this furnace for two years , but I always seem to get it to work (eventually) .

Basically it won't stay running. I've changed out the thermalcouple multiple times and that usually seems to work. Even today I had it running for 20 mins . But usually 2-5 min is all I will get.

I light the pilot , get the burners to come on , the fan comes on and within a few minutes it ( the pilot ) goes out.

It's never the same length of time either and that's one thing that has me stumped. Yesterday I had it running all day , brought the temp up to 28 deg . The house was nice and toasty. Lowered the set point to 21 and went to bed. By the time I woke up the house was at 18 and the furnace was not lit.

I had a furnace guy come look at it last year . No cracks , which is good . But he couldn't answer me as to why it's not staying running.

The only thing that seems to kind of make it better is when I get a new thermocouple (which I did again today ) .

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Old 01-10-2017, 02:15 PM   #2
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Re: Furnace issue , maybe someone has had this issue before ?


I don't see an edit botton.

Could it be electrical ?

Another thing to add about the timing , just tried to start it again and the pilot went out before the fan kicked on. So maybe 30 seconds .

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Old 01-10-2017, 02:35 PM   #3
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Re: Furnace issue , maybe someone has had this issue before ?


Probably the shape of the pilot flame is wrong. The orifice in the pilot burner gets partly plugged and the flame gets distorted.

Most of the time you cannot clean them unless it is a very old screw in type. The ones with the soft aluminum inset usually get damaged when you remove them. You may need a new orifice or pilot burner.

That is a very nasty finicky furnace and we called them Flame Throwers where I am. Notorious for delayed ignition at startup and more than a few blew the front door off in the process. They are all gone where I am as every heat exchanger cracked.

I would get the guy back and ask him to replace the pilot burner. There are usually 3 types. Straight, right and left bent/shape with the Honeywells which i suspect you have so you need to know if it is a B tip or whatever you may have. Confusing if you are not familiar with them.

If you are in Canada and have a EMCO/Wholesale Htg company in your city they may sell it to you over the counter if you bring it in and match it.

http://www.discountplumbingoutlet.co...zOcaAqK98P8HAQ
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Old 01-10-2017, 02:46 PM   #4
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Re: Furnace issue , maybe someone has had this issue before ?


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Originally Posted by yuri View Post
Probably the shape of the pilot flame is wrong. The orifice in the pilot burner gets partly plugged and the flame gets distorted.

Most of the time you cannot clean them unless it is a very old screw in type. The ones with the soft aluminum inset usually get damaged when you remove them. You may need a new orifice or pilot burner.

That is a very nasty finicky furnace and we called them Flame Throwers where I am. Notorious for delayed ignition at startup and more than a few blew the front door off in the process. They are all gone where I am as every heat exchanger cracked.

I would get the guy back and ask him to replace the pilot burner. There are usually 3 types. Straight, right and left bent/shape with the Honeywells which i suspect you have so you need to know if it is a B tip or whatever you may have. Confusing if you are not familiar with them.

If you are in Canada and have a EMCO/Wholesale Htg company in your city they may sell it to you over the counter if you bring it in and match it.

http://www.discountplumbingoutlet.co...zOcaAqK98P8HAQ
Thanks for the reply.

I do have the screw style and I have cleaned it a few times , just blew through it. Not saying that's not the issue but The flame seems strong .

I do have an EMCO here , maybe I'll take it apart and see if I can get another one. Doubt they will have stock parts to this old beast though , lol.

I was just going to run and grab another thermalcouple, because I can't even get the pilot to stay running now ??
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Old 01-10-2017, 02:58 PM   #5
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Re: Furnace issue , maybe someone has had this issue before ?


If you have the screw in style you can usually take a thin piece of #18 wire or tiny drill bit and swirl it around in the opening in the orifice BUT do not stick it in the actual hole or enlarge the hole or the flame will get huge.

Like I said it was a VERY finicky furnace and I am surprised yours is still running.

They may still have the original pilot burner as I am sure it was a off the shelf Honeywell type. If the flame is wrong it can overheat the tip of the thermocouple and kill it.

Also when you install it do not bend it within the last 1/2 inch where it attaches to the gas valve or the junction inside can break. Get a longer one like 24" or 30" or 36" if it is easier to work with. Length does not matter on how it works.

If there is still gas coming out the pilot burner when you try light it then the thermocouple is shot. If there is no gas then the valve is shot. After they drop out a lot they can fail closed.

They won't sell you a valve due to liability issues. Most wholesalers only sell to gas fitters in Canada but thermocouples you can get at HDepot and maybe they will sell the pilot burner.
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Old 01-10-2017, 03:39 PM   #6
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Re: Furnace issue , maybe someone has had this issue before ?


EMCO had the one you posted ($50) but the one I need has a left bend. It would be nice if I could just replace the office , because after talking to you I'm starting to think the holes may be worn and I'm cooking the thermocouple, ?? .

Only thinking that now because the need one ran for a good 20 min then it shut off and I'm having a hard time lighting and keeping it running .

I put a call out to a few people in hopes they have some old spare parts and maybe I can get an office . I'll also check the Home Hardware in town but I dought they will have it.

I'll get one more thermalcouple and if it cooks it I'll have to hunt down some parts .

Your not The first person to tell me how ****ty these furnaces are , but hey if I can keep t going for a few more months then I'm laughing and I'll invest in a new one.
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Old 01-10-2017, 04:31 PM   #7
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Re: Furnace issue , maybe someone has had this issue before ?


It is a ORIFICE not office.

Yeah those furnaces were a joke. I had a new one we installed for a lady with severe delayed ignition. Blew the front door off. She was so scared she called from the neighbors and would not go back into her house.

Only way I could get it to work was to swap the burners left to right and somehow if you held your mouth the right way it worked.

There were the odd ones where I suspect when they formed the heat exchanger they must have added a bit extra steel/overdid it when pouring it and the goofy things lasted a long time.

Ran into that with some Olsens and Clares.
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Old 01-10-2017, 04:43 PM   #8
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Re: Furnace issue , maybe someone has had this issue before ?


Lol ya sorry I'm typing on my phone , probably lots of spelling errors.

Is there a way to turn down the flow of gas ? Prob not just thought I'd ask lol
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Old 01-10-2017, 05:04 PM   #9
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Re: Furnace issue , maybe someone has had this issue before ?


You can adjust the pilot BUT it probably will turn it into a Flame Thrower.

SERIOUSLY it is not worth the risk with that furnace.

The crappy burners and the way they are mounted is the issue along with lousy heat exchangers that most had.
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Old 01-10-2017, 05:48 PM   #10
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Re: Furnace issue , maybe someone has had this issue before ?


Let's say it is the orfice and the thermalcouple is getting to hit , Is there a way to insulate the thermalcouple? Aluminum foil or something to protect it ?

Just throwing things out there. Anything to get me through the night , lol
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Old 01-10-2017, 05:49 PM   #11
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Re: Furnace issue , maybe someone has had this issue before ?


Loose wire on the Honeywell assembly maybe ?
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Old 01-10-2017, 05:58 PM   #12
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Re: Furnace issue , maybe someone has had this issue before ?


No to both.

When you screw it down into the valve make sure you just seat it and tighten it no more than 1/4 to 1/2 a turn using a 1/4" wrench. If you torque it down then the lead gets crushed and it gets damaged.
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Old 01-10-2017, 08:05 PM   #13
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Re: Furnace issue , maybe someone has had this issue before ?


Now I can't even get my pilot to stay lit ! Fack !
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Old 01-10-2017, 09:07 PM   #14
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Re: Furnace issue , maybe someone has had this issue before ?


I still have a number of flame masters going in the mild Vancouver climate but that's a furnace whose gas valve and burner assy should be removed annually for a proper heat exchanger camera inspection for safety's sake....but i digress..

Could you post a picture of the pilot flame so we can see it?

The thermocouple works through the difference of temp between it's tip and the cold junction located about 3 inches back along it's length away from that tip. If that cold junction is getting artificially heated through a leaking pilot tube or too much of the thermocouple length receiving radiant heat from the burners through poor positioning, then even the best thermocouple will not be able to do it's job.

In your situation, I would simply buy a thermocouple adapter that allows you to meter measure the thermocouple dcmv while it is screwed into the gas valve.
Giving us those results will allow us to tell you how strong the thermocouple actually is when it's attached to the gas valve or whether the real culprit of your pilot problem is from a faulty gas valve.

Even if your thermocouple will not stay lit when you release the gas valve control, doing that test as long as you hold down the gas valve control for at least a minutes worth burn time, will give us the info to advise you what to do.

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Old 01-11-2017, 05:02 AM   #15
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Re: Furnace issue , maybe someone has had this issue before ?


Yes, please post pic of pilot flame hitting the thermocouple. And it could be that your gas valve is worn/wearing out.

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