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Old 12-30-2007, 08:31 AM   #1
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fill valve, boiler related


I think I understand the purpose of the filter and fast fill valve... but How do I operate the valve? It doesn't seem to want to budge in any way outside of unscrewing the whole top handle portion. I can lift on the handle but it really is so stiff that I can't get it to pull up more than just a little bit before it feels like it is going to bend. If I unscrew it completely I can move the lever without a problem. So it's not that the hinge is stuck


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Old 12-30-2007, 09:47 AM   #2
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fill valve, boiler related


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Originally Posted by pmacedo View Post
I think I understand the purpose of the filter and fast fill valve... but How do I operate the valve? It doesn't seem to want to budge in any way outside of unscrewing the whole top handle portion. I can lift on the handle but it really is so stiff that I can't get it to pull up more than just a little bit before it feels like it is going to bend. If I unscrew it completely I can move the lever without a problem. So it's not that the hinge is stuck
What filter? Their is a screen in the relief valve but that's about it. You just hold that "lever deali" up to override the pressure regulator and fast fill or overfill the system. If that doesn't pull up something is wrong with the valve. I have no idea why they would have that capped nipple sticking out of their instead of just leaving the plug in the hole like it originally was.
What pressure does that valve fill to?

If you really can't purge your system you may have to start cutting lines and installing tapped elbows with bleeders.

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Old 12-30-2007, 09:56 AM   #3
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fill valve, boiler related


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Originally Posted by pmacedo View Post
I think I understand the purpose of the filter and fast fill valve... but How do I operate the valve? It doesn't seem to want to budge in any way outside of unscrewing the whole top handle portion. I can lift on the handle but it really is so stiff that I can't get it to pull up more than just a little bit before it feels like it is going to bend. If I unscrew it completely I can move the lever without a problem. So it's not that the hinge is stuck


The part in the pic is a dual unit valve. The part to the right is a pressure relief valve and should never be plugged, it is protection of the boiler being in an over pressure situation and being able to relieve pressure and not crack the boiler or explode, hopefully you have a relief valve on the boiler itself. The part to the left is the pressure reducing valve which doesn't have a fast fill option on it. Looking at the exterior of the parts in the pic, I would change them out.
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Old 12-30-2007, 10:00 AM   #4
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The part in the pic is a dual unit valve. The part to the right is a pressure relief valve and should never be plugged, it is protection of the boiler being in an over pressure situation and being able to relieve pressure and not crack the boiler or explode
Ouch, best get this fixed soon or remove that nipple of of that relief valve
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Old 12-30-2007, 10:07 AM   #5
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Ouch, best get this fixed soon or remove that nipple of of that relief valve

It was probably dripping water and rather than see what the real problem was they just plugged it. I changed out a few boilers last winter that had been plugged like that.
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Old 12-30-2007, 11:10 AM   #6
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I'm starting to realize that the plumbers in my area are idiots...

What do you guys mean by plugged? Which portion of the setup is incorrect? I will post an additional picture if you need

Last edited by pmacedo; 12-30-2007 at 11:12 AM.
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Old 12-30-2007, 11:14 AM   #7
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I'm starting to realize that the plumbers in my area are idiots...
Don't be so hard on the plumbers in your area, good chance most don't do work on boiler systems, and would recommend an HVAC tech to handle it.
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Old 12-30-2007, 11:31 AM   #8
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I realize that I am being a bit hard on them. But man.. I've had two people come out to look at things and they contradicted one another quite a bit.
Really hard to know what is right.
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Old 12-30-2007, 11:34 AM   #9
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I

What do you guys mean by plugged? Which portion of the setup is incorrect? I will post an additional picture if you need
See the nipple screwed into the bottom of that relief valve on the right side, that is what we called plugged or capped off.
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Old 12-30-2007, 11:36 AM   #10
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See the nipple screwed into the bottom of that relief valve on the right side, that is what we called plugged or capped off.
Chances are it was leaking, and instead of getting the valve replaced, it was just capped off, chance it will leak when you unscrew that nipple out of there.
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Old 12-30-2007, 01:42 PM   #11
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If you have a seperate relief valve on the boiler itself, you can replace the dual unit valve with just a pressure reducing valve. If you don't have one on there you will need to replace the whole assembly.
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Old 12-30-2007, 04:06 PM   #12
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ok... I have a pressure relief valve on the boiler so that part is ok then. I think that the boiler was a recent install and likely the previous set up didn't have a relief valve on it.

With the dual unit valve as it stands now, does anyone see a way to increase the pressure in this system so that I can bleed the air out of the pipes more easily? The noise is driving me nuts and while I am having someone come by to do bleeder valves on the baseboards (and replace the expansion tank) soon. The holidays are delaying things considerably.
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Old 12-30-2007, 04:11 PM   #13
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Why do you think the expansion tank is bad? As for the PRV replace it with a new one, the one there looks better than 20 yrs old. If you try and get more pressure out of that old valve it is just going to cause you bigger problems, a new B&G FB38 is less than $30 and will save you a world of issues.
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Old 12-30-2007, 04:34 PM   #14
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Hmm.. well here's why I have run into with the tank

- I have been told that this type of tank should be half full (plumber that has come here AND people on this forum)
- I have also been told that this type of tank should be empty (plumber that has come here AND people on this forum)

I have closed the expansion tank shut off valve and drained the tank. It floods out a lot of water at first and then it burps a bit and comes out BLACK. Smells weird too. Almost like fuel. Once it comes out black it runs about 1/2 as much water as it had in the first rush. It always seem to have a trickle going doesn't seem to ever stop.

Once I close the drain and open the shut off valve, it fills back up.

So based on the whole 'it should be empty' theory... It's bad
If it is supposed to be filled half way, I'd guess that it is more than half but I can't really be sure of that. The blackness seems like a bad sign though it could just be water that has settled with gunk in it.

I have also been told that the tank could be the cause of the air in the pipes.
Frustrating... Is there a book that I should be reading to get the answers on things like this? Usually books are right but I can't find any good ones that cover working on old systems.

I suppose that is why I am not a pro!
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Old 12-31-2007, 08:34 AM   #15
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Is the blue tank in the background of the pic the one your talking about? The black stuff in the water is iron oxide and it is good to have htat inside the system as it will coat the piping and actually save it from rusting out, if you biring in to much fresh water it will not get a chance to form and it will rust out the piping prematurely. It sounds like your talking about a standard expansion tank that you only need to drain once a year and it shouldn't be a source of air into the system.

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