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Old 01-14-2007, 07:34 PM   #1
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fan motor (or cap?) bad on Lochinvar Copperfin II


Saturday morning my Lochinvar boiler was working fine. But while shoveling snow Saturday night I heard it making a buzz instead of the fan running. 'Low air' light was on.

Right after a power off/reset, the fan motor just buzzes -- no air blowing.

I removed it and put it on my workbench... the aluminum squirrel cage looks fine, and it spins fine with just a flick of my finger. However, when I apply 120 VAC to the 2 leads, it makes that buzz sound still. If I try to turn it when power is applied, I *can* turn it but there is considerable resistance (about the same as required to remove the lid from a jar the first time), but it will not "take off" and start running.

Again, with no power, it spins freely.

If I spin it, then apply power while it's spinning, it stops spinning immediately when I apply power, as the motor magets "grab" it.

Would that be the motor, or the capacitor (12.5 uF 350VAC)?

And if the motor, does anyone know where a new motor-only can be purchased? Mine says:
fasco
Model 70625068
Type U62B1
115 V 2.2A and at the bottom of the white label is another number 02402

On the fasco website I could not find any reference to my model #.
Nor could I find any online catalog that lists it.

Help! (It's cooooold here in Spokane!)

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Old 01-15-2007, 10:57 AM   #2
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fan motor (or cap?) bad on Lochinvar Copperfin II


Hi jpwspo

If when you apply voltage the motor will not turn or try to run when you spin the blower wheel, this typically indicates a bad motor. To verify this remove the run capacitor out of the circuit, tape the ends of the leads so it doesn't shock you or short out and try to spin it and get it to run. If the motor takes off and runs chances are the capacitor is actually shorted. If the motor does not try to run, the motor is bad. make sure that you replace it with the same Horsepower and RPM, voltage etc. If you have to replace the run capacitor, make sure it is with like microferads. You can go up in voltage, but do not go below the rated voltage on the current run capacitor if this is all you have to replace.

Good luck
Rusty

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Old 01-15-2007, 02:24 PM   #3
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fan motor (or cap?) bad on Lochinvar Copperfin II


Thank you Carrierman! I see you've been a very helpful respondent on so many posts -- that is so generous of you to share your expertise!

My Fasco distributor said it's "OEM only" meaning they will not sell a replacement motor only.

I called my local Lochinvar installer and they quoted $780 !!!! for the part, because they force you to buy the entire squirrel cage assembly as well, not just the $100 motor. Part of the problem is they force you to buy from the installer, who's marking it up a goodly % just to take the order from a DIY homeowner.

Do you have any sources for replacement motors? The RPM are not listed on my motor, so matching it mechanically is a trick unless I can find the same motor?

Or do you know of a place anywhere in the USA or internet to buy replacement Lochinvar parts at or close to wholesale?

Thanks!
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Old 01-15-2007, 03:05 PM   #4
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fan motor (or cap?) bad on Lochinvar Copperfin II


Hi jpwspo

I hate when people in my buisness do that. If you have a Grainger or a Johnstone supply in your area you can give them the information off the motor and they can give you the information you need. I believe both of them have international web pages. Give them a try, if you dont get anywhere let me have the numbers off of the motor and I will see if I can help.

Good luck
Rusty
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Old 01-16-2007, 12:05 PM   #5
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fan motor (or cap?) bad on Lochinvar Copperfin II


Thanks for that advice. I went down to a friend of a friend's biz (who rebuilds huge motors the size of washing machines) and checked his Emerson catalogs. Did not find a match. Here's what I did find out with his help:

* rated 115V 2.2A
* open case design
* sleeves, not ball bearings
* We tested the Cap -- it's not the problem.
* It's supposed to draw 2.2 A but was drawing about 5 A
* The label does not specify the RPM but we popped the back off the motor, and based on the fact there are 16 little tubes and how the windings are arranged, the biz owner said it was a 3000 RPM motor

The external length of the motor housing is 4.75". The outside diameter is 3.375". The shaft is 3/8" (which he said might make a match tough). The shaft sticks out 1.375", the last 0.75" of the shaft has that notch cut out for the fan bushing to slide over.

4 screws sticking out of the can are what holds the fan assembly to the motor housing. I have the ability to re-drill the fan housing if necessary to accomodate a different mounting arrangement.

Nice little motor -- but doesn't look like a $700 motor to me!

If you have access to any other motor replacement resources, I'd appreciate any hint!

Another friend suggested I find a place to re-wind the motor coils since we're now 100% sure it's a winding gone bad. But he had no clue what it would cost for a small motor, and didn't know of any place that works on small motors like this one. The owner who helped me diagnose it said it probably wouldn't save money, but admitted he didn't know what people who rebuild small motors charge by the job or hour.

Heavy Sigh.
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Old 01-16-2007, 01:31 PM   #6
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fan motor (or cap?) bad on Lochinvar Copperfin II


Hi jpwspo

I did some research and the closest I could come up with is a fasco D219. If you go to the fasco website and put this number in, see if it matches the one you have. This motor has a 5/16" shaft size and would require a bushing to 3/8". Hope this helps.

Good luck
Rusty
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Old 01-16-2007, 02:19 PM   #7
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fan motor (or cap?) bad on Lochinvar Copperfin II


Thank you, Rusty!

Using that # I was able to find a comparable Dayton #3M292 locally at Grainger for about $106 (retail).

It's worth a shot! I'll post a note if it works, or have my next of kin post one if it doesn't. (That was just a little joke for that "ace" poster to chew on.)

I'm excited -- might have some heat tonight!
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Old 01-16-2007, 06:49 PM   #8
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fan motor (or cap?) bad on Lochinvar Copperfin II


Works like a charm (so far). Parts required (from Grainger):

Dayton motor 3M292 (cost about $110 full retail)

Dayton bushing 5/16 to 3/8 P/N 6L102 (cost about $4 for 3) to make the smaller shaft on the Dayton fit the 3/8 attachment on the squirrel cage.

Since the Dayton motor can spin in either direction, and the Lochinvar wants CW, per the clear instructions on the motor's label I wired the Black+Blue (motor) to White (control) and the Brown + White (motor) to the Brown (control). I used those insulated copper crimp-on connectors for a lasting connection, not those cheesy screw-on types.

The only difference was the 4 bolts that mount the motor to the Fan housing are 8/32 on the Dayton, and were slightly bigger on the original Fasco, so I had to use 4 new 8/32 nuts.

Also, the motor did not come with a ground wire, so I think one should add a ground wire from the motor housing (nut on back of motor) to the boiler chassis (such as one of the 4 nuts that attach the fan/motor unit to the boiler chassis.

TOTAL COST of parts: $114.

REMINDER: WHAT THE LOCHINVAR BUT-PIRATES WANTED: $780

Thank goodness for this forum!
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Old 01-17-2007, 01:49 PM   #9
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fan motor (or cap?) bad on Lochinvar Copperfin II


Hi jpwspo

I am sure I am speaking for all of us, good job and thank you for letting us and anybody that uses this forum the needed information. Have a safe and happy winter.

Good luck
Rusty

Last edited by #CARRIERMAN; 01-17-2007 at 08:15 PM.
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Old 01-17-2007, 06:10 PM   #10
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fan motor (or cap?) bad on Lochinvar Copperfin II


Literally I could not have done it without this forum, AND your kind assistance, Rusty.

It was actually kinda fun learning to "beat the system."

And re: the docs on what I did, yep, I hope that's helpful to someone else someday as my token contribution, not being any kind of expert.
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Old 09-15-2009, 12:20 PM   #11
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fan motor (or cap?) bad on Lochinvar Copperfin II


Quote:
Originally Posted by jpwspo View Post
Works like a charm (so far). Parts required (from Grainger):

Dayton motor 3M292 (cost about $110 full retail)

Dayton bushing 5/16 to 3/8 P/N 6L102 (cost about $4 for 3) to make the smaller shaft on the Dayton fit the 3/8 attachment on the squirrel cage.

Since the Dayton motor can spin in either direction, and the Lochinvar wants CW, per the clear instructions on the motor's label I wired the Black+Blue (motor) to White (control) and the Brown + White (motor) to the Brown (control). I used those insulated copper crimp-on connectors for a lasting connection, not those cheesy screw-on types.

The only difference was the 4 bolts that mount the motor to the Fan housing are 8/32 on the Dayton, and were slightly bigger on the original Fasco, so I had to use 4 new 8/32 nuts.

Also, the motor did not come with a ground wire, so I think one should add a ground wire from the motor housing (nut on back of motor) to the boiler chassis (such as one of the 4 nuts that attach the fan/motor unit to the boiler chassis.

TOTAL COST of parts: $114.

REMINDER: WHAT THE LOCHINVAR BUT-PIRATES WANTED: $780

Thank goodness for this forum!



-----Hello, I have found your post very helpful. I'm about to try to replace the OEM fasco motor with the Dayton suggested. Just wondering if your Dayton replacement is still working well. Thank you so much for your prompt response to this.
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Old 09-15-2009, 02:16 PM   #12
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fan motor (or cap?) bad on Lochinvar Copperfin II


FWIW.... I had replaced my old motor in my Old Lennox (c. 1970's) with a Dayton High Efficient motor. Ran great for 3 years, and ran it "fan only" quite a bit. Was still working when I replaced the furnace, and I gave it to my neighbor for his AC/Heat. They ran it all summer, without issues.Still running strong!

TJ
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Old 09-15-2009, 02:50 PM   #13
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fan motor (or cap?) bad on Lochinvar Copperfin II


TJ

Thanks for your reply.

Royal1540
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Old 11-25-2011, 01:55 PM   #14
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fan motor (or cap?) bad on Lochinvar Copperfin II


I work for a hotel that has 12 of these Lochinvar boilers. I spent 780 for the new fasco motor then did some research and found this site. I have now changed out 6 of these fasco motors with the Dayton motor from Grainger. It works perfectly. Thanks again Guys!!!!

Scott from Vegas
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Old 03-07-2012, 12:48 PM   #15
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fan motor (or cap?) bad on Lochinvar Copperfin II


Thanks for this thread. I just used the Grainger motor in my boiler and it worked perfectly. The only thing I can add, is that I had to cut the studs off a little to clear the fan. The price has gone up a little too, $140 total cost now. Thanks again for the info.

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