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-   -   Factory start kit vs 5-2-1 (http://www.diychatroom.com/f17/factory-start-kit-vs-5-2-1-a-183749/)

taxmantoo 07-17-2013 12:56 PM

Factory start kit vs 5-2-1
 
I ordered a "Goodman hard start kit CSR-U-1" from an internet vendor. Bought it for my GSZ130181 1.5T heat pump.

Got a CPS Products 5-2-1 kit, model CSRU1. Came with a zip-tie instead of a capacitor bracket. A little internet browsing indicates that the 5-2-1 is the best aftermarket kit.

1. Is there a Goodman factory kit, or do they just sell 5-2-1s?
2. If there is a factory kit, would it be notably better than the 5-2-1?

taxmantoo 07-17-2013 08:38 PM

After extensive Googling, I came up with a service bulletin from 2006 which states that Goodman sells Compressor Saver kits CSR-U-1, CSR-U-2, and CSR-U-3, which should be used in non-bleed TXV applications.

Therefore, the CSR-U-1 that I received either came from Goodman or is identical to one that came from Goodman, unless they've changed their start kit provider since 2006.

I'll assume that the seller which represented the 5-2-1 kit as a Goodman product was telling the truth.

firedawgsatx 07-18-2013 12:32 PM

I just installed a hard start kit on my 3-ton heat pump yesterday. It is a Supco 3W1 and comes with a mounting bracket. Installation was very easy and it works super. It is a "3-wire 5-2-1" kit and is supposed to replace the CSRU1.

taxmantoo 07-18-2013 01:10 PM

Looks like the 3 wire Supco and Compressor Saver kits are the ones to use if there isn't a custom kit available from the manufacturer of the O/D unit. I have heard that the Supco can't take a 2nd start within five minutes, but if your system is short cycling that's a problem to be fixed, not the start kit's fault for not keeping up.

Here's a video of somebody abusing his compressor by repeatedly starting with 5-2-1 and two wire kits. Instead of a meter he uses an oscilloscope so you can see the actual current inrush. I just wish he'd also done it with the meter on the incoming power line to show if they increase or reduce the power draw from the breaker box.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFFRpxFkpcM

beenthere 07-18-2013 04:44 PM

It would show the same thing. The compressor always draws LRA to start. The hard start just greatly decreases the amount of time it draws LRA.

taxmantoo 07-18-2013 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beenthere (Post 1217599)
It would show the same thing. The compressor always draws LRA to start. The hard start just greatly decreases the amount of time it draws LRA.

Hmm, how does that time compare with the reaction time of a non-HACR breaker? The breaker issue is one of the reasons why I bought the 5-2-1.

Maximum breaker size per Goodman is 20A, while LRA = 48.


AFAIK, Cutler-Hammer/Eaton no longer makes BR style HACR breakers, and used HACR breakers cost more than new regular breakers. (plus I really don't want to install a used breaker)

beenthere 07-18-2013 05:00 PM

The 5-2-1 won't negate the need for a HACR breaker.

taxmantoo 07-18-2013 05:24 PM

I've got a Copeland Scroll, 1.5 ton, and piston metering on the indoor coil.

The fun part is I have 100A service, a well pump, and an electric dryer. Might get interesting if the well pump is running while I'm using the dryer and the compressor starts up. I could go years without that happening, but this will happen more often: Heat pump and dryer are both running, I flush a toilet and the well starts, or I run another load of washing and the well starts repeatedly.

My options as I see them, in order of increasing difficulty:

1. leave the circuit on the 15A BR215 breaker that's currently powering a mini-split. If it doesn't blow in the first day, switch in the BR220 and assume I'm good to go. (but it sounds like the probability of this working is low)

2. Get a used BRH220 HACR breaker off ebay. Found one for $18, but I really hate used breakers, especially when most BRs were made 30-40 years ago.

3. Put in a 40A or 50A breaker to power a sub panel next to the breaker box with a 20 HACR in it.

4. Put in a larger breaker, run heavier wire to the disconnect box, and switch to a fused disconnect box to provide 20A HACR protection to the heat pump.

beenthere 07-18-2013 05:32 PM

What ever it takes to make it code compliant.

taxmantoo 07-18-2013 05:42 PM

Is there a code issue with A/C on non-HACR breakers?
This amateur would think that circuit protection which acts faster would not be a code issue.

That $18 eBay breaker is looking better all the time. It's unknown vintage, but I'm already using a load center full of 35 year old breakers that have been working OK since the house was built.

beenthere 07-18-2013 05:44 PM

Code requires it to be on an HACR breaker.

taxmantoo 07-18-2013 06:01 PM

OK, I'll buy the HACR breaker.

Given my voltage at the load center, and the length of the wire run (x2) from the load center, I calculate about 215v at the unit at LRA.
Is that good enough, especially with a 5-2-1 on a system that doesn't require a start kit?

beenthere 07-18-2013 08:21 PM

The compressor was design to work on 208/230, so yes its fine.

Doc Holliday 07-21-2013 02:00 AM

less heat on the start winding is it.


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