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Old 09-09-2008, 11:59 PM   #1
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EXcessive moisture in house


I have a Trane high efficiency air unit and a Trane high efficiency furnace. I have too much moisture in my house. I run 2 dehumidifiers to remove the moisture. The water does run out of the output tube from the air conditioner. I have so much moisture that my refrigerator rusted inside my house. I have had 3 HVAC companies and a home inspector come out to see what the cause is. I have gotten all kinds of answers from close all the vents downstairs to you need new returns b/c they are pulling moisture from the crawl space of your house (there is plastic covering the crawl space) We have removed insulation from under the floor in the crawl space. The speed of the fan has been adjusted. I thought the air conditioner was too big thus not cycling long enough to remove the moisture so I had a load evaluation done and it is not too big or too small. I have new wood floors and I am worried that they will absorb the moisture. We have no problem in the winter months when we use our gas furnace. We did not have this problem before replacing our old unit. It has been about 12 yrs ago and according to my notes I called the installer 2 weeks after the installation b/c my salt had clumped in the shakers. I have had the company out several times as well as the other companies. I am kind of at wits end. HELP, does anyone have any suggestions or advice for me? Thanks in advance

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Old 09-10-2008, 12:07 AM   #2
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EXcessive moisture in house


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Originally Posted by geema View Post
I have a Trane high efficiency air unit and a Trane high efficiency furnace. I have too much moisture in my house. I run 2 dehumidifiers to remove the moisture. The water does run out of the am kind of at wits end. HELP, does anyone have any suggestions or advice for me? Thanks in advance

How high is the humidity in your house? How does that compare to the currently humidity outside your home?

How much water are the dehumidifiers removing?

Is your AC cooling the house properly? How large is your house?


Jamie

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Old 09-10-2008, 12:30 AM   #3
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EXcessive moisture in house


How high is the humidity in your house? I don't have a humidity reading
How would I go about getting that?

How does that compare to the currently humidity outside your home? During the summer months it is much more humid inside than out unless there is a rain

How much water are the dehumidifiers removing? We are emptying the dehumidifiers 1-2 times a day. They are probably 1 1/2-2 gallons each. We are running these downstairs.

Is your AC cooling the house properly? The house is cooled really well. When there is too much moisture in the house, eg if we don't run the dehumidifiers, it is a damp bone chilling cool. One of the HVAC guys said he couldn't stand it.

How large is your house? 2400 sq ft two story/common duct work for upstairs and downstairs.
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Old 09-10-2008, 01:22 AM   #4
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EXcessive moisture in house


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Originally Posted by geema View Post
How high is the humidity in your house? I don't have a humidity reading
How would I go about getting that?

Walmart or similar stores carry them with the regular digital outdoor thermometers (at walmart in the hardware department). You should be able to find them for about $10 each. They read the temp and humidity. I'd get a couple of them for testing purposes.

How does that compare to the currently humidity outside your home? During the summer months it is much more humid inside than out unless there is a rain

There are a lot of things in your home that generate moisture, cooking, showers, laundry, etc. However it still concerns me that you feel it is more humid in your house then it is outside much of the time.

Before I go making a bunch of guesses and asking all kind of questions you going to have to guess at, I would suggest that you get some of the humidity meters. If it's not a financial hardship, I would get one of them that read the humidity outside as well. Then we can see the relationship between the inside and outside humidity.

I have some other questions:

I want to see if there is any possible unnecessary source of water coming from inside the house.

Do you have a Humidifier (April Air) on your furnace? Is there any possibility that this is malfunctioning and adding moisture to the air? Can you physically disable the unit if one is present for trouble shooing? There may be a switch, plug, or where the water line connects there should be a shut off valve, I'd just turn it off if there is any doubt as to if the unit is off.

These things are kind of hard for me to imagine putting out the amount of humidity that you describe, but are worth thinking about.

Indoor Hottub that is used frequently that is adding moisture.

Broken or blocked bathroom vent fans. My vent fans has been disconnected from the vent for 2 years now and I have yet to fix it, so it has not been used. I honestly can't say it contributes very much to the house humidity level that I have noticed.

Broken or blocked dryer vent - This should be rigid metal ducts that can me taken apart and cleaned.

How much water are the dehumidifiers removing? We are emptying the dehumidifiers 1-2 times a day. They are probably 1 1/2-2 gallons each. We are running these downstairs.

. You have a lot of water coming from somewhere. This sounds like a significant amount of water to remove in addition to what your AC is doing.

Is your AC cooling the house properly? The house is cooled really well. When there is too much moisture in the house, eg if we don't run the dehumidifiers, it is a damp bone chilling cool. One of the HVAC guys said he couldn't stand it.

.Everywhere in the house, or more so in one area? I.e. basement?

Running the AC by it's very nature removes moisture from the air as it cools the house. So somehow your getting additional moisture in the house.

How much are you cooling the house (temp) vs the outdoor temp? Trying to an idea of how much the ac runs.

How large is your house? 2400 sq ft two story/common duct work for upstairs and downstairs.
. How well sealed off is the crawlspace? Can you explain more about the vent setup in the house, Are any of these powered vents? (fans).

Do you have any type of venting system that is attached to the furnace / HVAC system? Something that brings in fresh air to the vent system (not just a small pvc pipe that feeds the furnace burners). ?

I'll let you comment on these questions before I go further, hopefully something here will give us some clues.

Jamie
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Old 09-10-2008, 10:02 AM   #5
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EXcessive moisture in house


Originally Posted by geema
How high is the humidity in your house? I don't have a humidity reading
How would I go about getting that?

Walmart or similar stores carry them with the regular digital outdoor thermometers (at walmart in the hardware department). You should be able to find them for about $10 each. They read the temp and humidity. I'd get a couple of them for testing purposes.


I will purchase a couple. Will I need to stop running the dehumidifiers to get an accurate reading? I will have to say that we were running the fan 24/7 and have moved it to automatic and it seems to have helped a little.


How does that compare to the currently humidity outside your home? During the summer months it is much more humid inside than out unless there is a rain

There are a lot of things in your home that generate moisture, cooking, showers, laundry, etc. However it still concerns me that you feel it is more humid in your house then it is outside much of the time.

Before I go making a bunch of guesses and asking all kind of questions you going to have to guess at, I would suggest that you get some of the humidity meters. If it's not a financial hardship, I would get one of them that read the humidity outside as well. Then we can see the relationship between the inside and outside humidity.

I have some other questions:

I want to see if there is any possible unnecessary source of water coming from inside the house.

Do you have a Humidifier (April Air) on your furnace? No Is there any possibility that this is malfunctioning and adding moisture to the air? Can you physically disable the unit if one is present for trouble shooing? There may be a switch, plug, or where the water line connects there should be a shut off valve, I'd just turn it off if there is any doubt as to if the unit is off.

These things are kind of hard for me to imagine putting out the amount of humidity that you describe, but are worth thinking about.

Indoor Hottub that is used frequently that is adding moisture. Not even a jacuzzi tub

Broken or blocked bathroom vent fans. My vent fans has been disconnected from the vent for 2 years now and I have yet to fix it, so it has not been used. I honestly can't say it contributes very much to the house humidity level that I have noticed. We do not have a bathroom vent fan but the bathroom that my husband and I use is upstairs and I have not noticed any measurable moisture from there.

Broken or blocked dryer vent - This should be rigid metal ducts that can me taken apart and cleaned.

We have checked the dryer vents. It is in a laundry room that is not tied into the whole house heating and cooling system.

How much water are the dehumidifiers removing? We are emptying the dehumidifiers 1-2 times a day. They are probably 1 1/2-2 gallons each. We are running these downstairs.

. You have a lot of water coming from somewhere. This sounds like a significant amount of water to remove in addition to what your AC is doing.


I still feel like the AC is not the proper size or something b/c this problem only started after the installation of that unit. I just found the paperwork and it is older than I thought. It was installed in 1992 so we are probably living on borrowed time. I still do not want to make the same mistake again. It is a Trane XL 1200 model TTX018-060C either a 3 1/2 ton or 4 ton I can't find that in my paperwork. The furnace is a Trane High efficiency induced Draft 2 Stage Heat model TUD100R948A.



Is your AC cooling the house properly? The house is cooled really well. When there is too much moisture in the house, eg if we don't run the dehumidifiers, it is a damp bone chilling cool. One of the HVAC guys said he couldn't stand it.

.Everywhere in the house, or more so in one area? I.e. basement?

The far end of the house from the unit seems colder to me both upstairs and down. Remember there is one central duct for the upstairs and down so the registers are at ceiling height down and in the floor up.

Running the AC by it's very nature removes moisture from the air as it cools the house. So somehow your getting additional moisture in the house.

Could it possibly not be cycling long enough to remove the moisture or could it be recycling the moisture instead of removing it?

How much are you cooling the house (temp) vs the outdoor temp? Trying to an idea of how much the ac runs.

WE keep the thermostat set at 74. The temperatures outside in the summer are usually 80-96. I live in Knoxville, TN so our weather is seasonal. Even if the thermostat says 74, sometimes, I think b/c of the moisture it is very chilly in the house.

How large is your house? 2400 sq ft two story/common duct work for upstairs and downstairs.


. How well sealed off is the crawlspace? Can you explain more about the vent setup in the house, Are any of these powered vents? (fans).
The vent system: We have a very large return vent downstairs in the foyer area of the house jsut below the thermostat. There is a return in the linen closet upstairs, the door of this closet is slotted for air flow. We have eave vents and vents on the ends of the house along with whirly bird and a power vent that is not working at this time. We are in the process of having the roof replaced and will have a ridge vent installed at that time and remove the whirlybird and power vent. There are foundation vents that we open and close manually. The floor of the crawl space has plastic on it. The termite inspector comes yearly and inspects that area. There is a plywood opening for the crawl space but I don't think it seals as well as it should. In the midst of all of this we have dug a drainage ditch to the end of the yard to make sure rain runs off away from the house.
Do you have any type of venting system that is attached to the furnace / HVAC system? Something that brings in fresh air to the vent system (not just a small pvc pipe that feeds the furnace burners). ?

I really don't know about that. The furnace does have it's own chimney and I would assume by the name of the unitInduced draft that it does have. I know there is a vent motor by the schematics. Sorry I'm no help here

I'll let you comment on these questions before I go further, hopefully something here will give us some clues.

I do have on one of my thermometers upstairs a humidity reading. It reads 47% with an indoor temp of 69 and outdoor of 74. The outdoor humidity reading is 56%. That is upstairs closest to the unit and with the 2 dehumnidifiers running. We have one running close to the return to see if that helps. I brought the thermometer downstairs to see what reading we get and the indoor temperature is 73, the outdoor is 74 and the humidity is 45%.

One thing I have not mentioned is that we are in the process of remodeling. When we removed the wall paper from the wall on the furtherest most "damp room" We found mildew under it and some under the carpet. We had to take care of that. We do not have this problem when using heat and we DID NOT have this before we replaced our old not as efficient unit. It is difficult to think about replacing a unit that still heats and cools but it looks like that might be what we have to do. I just want to explore what in the world could be causing this. Again, in looking at my notes I called the company, a reputable company, 2 weeks after installation with clothes upstairs feeling damp and was told to close vents downstairs 3/4 and open upstairs 3/4. called back a year later with salt clumping and moisture was told not cycling often enough to turn up air. Called a year later with moisture and mildew on vent and some fabric. Changed fan speed, etc.

Anything you can offer to help will be appreciated.. I will get back with you.

Jamie

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Old 09-10-2008, 11:18 AM   #6
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EXcessive moisture in house


I will purchase a couple. Will I need to stop running the dehumidifiers to get an accurate reading? I will have to say that we were running the fan 24/7 and have moved it to automatic and it seems to have helped a little.
I would turn off the de-humidifiers and just run your AC like normal. Allow 24-48 hours with them off to get an accurate idea of the humidity without them running - Then let me know what readings your getting.

I still feel like the AC is not the proper size or something b/c this problem only started after the installation of that unit. I just found the paperwork and it is older than I thought. It was installed in 1992 so we are probably living on borrowed time. I still do not want to make the same mistake again. It is a Trane XL 1200 model TTX018-060C either a 3 1/2 ton or 4 ton I can't find that in my paperwork. The furnace is a Trane High efficiency induced Draft 2 Stage Heat model TUD100R948A.

.It is possible it is not the right size. I have a 2.5 ton goodman that I installed 2 years ago. I have over 3,000 finished sqft. I am in Wisconsin, but we still have a number of humid days some up around 90 degrees. I can get the house down to ice box temperature (till I am freezing - down in the 60's) with the AC consistently bringing my humidity into an acceptable range. Now if it is really humid, My may have to run the AC a bit more to get the humidity down.

.Water being removed from the air is just part of the cooling process, water condenses on the coils thus reducing the humidity. So if the AC is cooling - then it is removing water. And if it is getting to the desired temp, then it should be removing about the same amount of water as the old one did.


By the way, this is what I have, we have installed a few of these:
http://www.goodmanmfg.com/Home/Produ...8/Default.aspx

I wonder if it is possible that you had a extra dehumidifier on your old furnace that was helping to manage the problem. Maybe this is something you want to consider adding to the HVAC system:

http://www.aprilaire.com/index.php?z...y=17&item=1700

Could it possibly not be cycling long enough to remove the moisture or could it be recycling the moisture instead of removing it?

.Well, if the AC unit is drastically over sized for your home, I suspect this is possiable.

Have you tried turning down the temp so the AC runs more to see if that removes more humidity?

I do have on one of my thermometers upstairs a humidity reading. It reads 47% with an indoor temp of 69 and outdoor of 74. The outdoor humidity reading is 56%. That is upstairs closest to the unit and with the 2 dehumnidifiers running. We have one running close to the return to see if that helps. I brought the thermometer downstairs to see what reading we get and the indoor temperature is 73, the outdoor is 74 and the humidity is 45%.


.Normally between 40% and 60% humidity indoors is considered to be a comfortable range. Does it still feel humid to you with these readings?

I know this is with your extra dehumids running, so you should see what kind of reading you get with the AC only.

It is difficult to think about replacing a unit that still heats and cools but it looks like that might be what we have to do. I just want

.Here, I'll make it easier... Imagine a 95 degree day and your old unit goes out, and you have to wait 3, 4, 5 days to get a contractor out there to fix it. Or imagine the the same with your furnace failing in the winter. I know it's hard to get rid of stuff that is working, but it is far better to get rid of it before it breaks.

Before you buy anything new, I would be very careful to make sure you are getting the right size of AC unit, as I am starting to suspect that the ac cycling too quickly could be part of (if not the) problem.

to explore what in the world could be causing this. Again, in looking at my notes I called the company, a reputable company, 2 weeks after installation with clothes upstairs feeling damp and was told to close vents downstairs 3/4 and open upstairs 3/4. called back a year later with salt clumping and moisture was told not cycling often enough to turn up air. Called a year later with moisture and mildew on vent and some fabric. Changed fan speed, etc.


.It might be worth a call to the manufacture of your AC system. Just to explain to them the problem, and let them know that multiple dealers have not been able to address your concerns and see if they have any suggestions for you. (possibly suggesting some other dealers).

Maybe there is someone here that could tell us what the possible implications of using a oversize AC unit are. As I just don't know for sure if this could be causing this problem.

Jamie

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