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Old 04-07-2009, 02:29 PM   #16
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Electric heat prices vs. geothermal


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Do you know of any good websites that describe the different types of geo systems, piping and how they are laid out and installed and sized etc.
Yuri,

These are a few that come to mind. To be honest, you can go on youtube and get a world if info related to installations. Closed loop horizontal and deep pond submerged will be the most of what you will find. The verticals are just that, wells with loops dropped.

The guy who owns these two sites is a friend of mine. He sharp as a tack when it comes to geo.
http://www.geoexchange.org/
http://www.geoexcel.com/

http://www.igshpa.okstate.edu/
http://www.igshpa.okstate.edu/geothermal/faq.htm

Here is a great video on the closed loop horizontal "slinky loop"


This is a great site. This is the equipment that I offer.
http://www.mcquay.com/McQuay/DesignSolutions/Geothermal

Hope this was what you had in mind. Really, a simple google search will come up with more then you want.

Later
Jay
There is so much good information out there.

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Old 04-07-2009, 02:34 PM   #17
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Electric heat prices vs. geothermal


Home air direct works for a distributor and is a nice guy IMO and is giving info for someone who is capable of installing/co-ordinating the entire project. Very few people can do that. You would have to see who installs them in your area and get quotes. MY opinion is that they are very expensive to install, HAVE to be sized and installed properly and setup properly. There are LOTS of flybynight/Joes heatem and cheatem contractors trying to make a quick buck as these systems are trendy etc. 80% will be out of business in less than 10 yrs. You need to be very careful who you choose to install it as they are quite complex. They contain a refrigeration unit and pumps, flow switches and other components which will eventually fail/need service at a cost. Waterfurnace seems like a good brand. In theory geo sounds good but time will tell how relaible they are and costs of future repairs and access to quick service/qualified techs/parts availabilty. These are all very important issues in cold climates like Canada. Tried and tested systems may be in the long run more reliable. If you have alternate backup heat like a wood stove etc doing without the geo for a few days may not be a disaster. I would get a 2nd opinion about repairing the heat pump. Electric strips/coils themselves can go obsolete.

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Old 04-07-2009, 02:39 PM   #18
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Electric heat prices vs. geothermal


Thanks Jay. I hate going thru all the manufacturers sales stuff and am looking for the engineering info. I like geo but as a 30 yr tech can imagine the drawbacks/service issues in the long run. Pros and cons to everything and people need to understand that when making a large $$ purchase.
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Old 04-07-2009, 03:13 PM   #19
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Electric heat prices vs. geothermal


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Home air direct works for a distributor and is a nice guy IMO and is giving info for someone who is CAPABLE of installing/co-ordinating the entire project.
Minor correction, I used to be in distribution. I am now considered a contractor. Because I do not want to go against the rules of advertising one's self here, I keep my "secret identity" to myself. And thanks for the nice guy comment. I have an ex-wife who will disagree

Yuri is correct, any diy hvac project is not for the faint of heart. Geo is the same on steriods. There is a percentage of the population, that by hell or high water will always try to do it a different way. Those are the folks who might be inclined to diy something of this magnitude.

And, on the subject of payback. I think geo like air-air is getting better as it has developed the last decade. The first couple of decades of geothermal did not quite live up to its reputation for savings, as many had to be replaced long before they paid for themselves in energy savings. I don't know if that will ever change much, as motors, blowers and pumps can only live so long.
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Old 04-07-2009, 03:39 PM   #20
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Electric heat prices vs. geothermal


These guys have prices on heat pumps and such
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg/start.shtml
but I don't know how to scale their prices to more well known brands.

What's your charge per kwh out there in NE OH?
If your past utility bills show Heating Degree Days and/or kwh, these figures can be used to more or less predict your expected bills in the future.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_...rmal_heat_pump

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Old 04-07-2009, 03:45 PM   #21
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Electric heat prices vs. geothermal


Those are york/Luxaire split heat pumps.
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Old 04-07-2009, 03:55 PM   #22
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Electric heat prices vs. geothermal


I read some service and technical info straight from Waterfurnace and others and those are very complicated units. Have computer boards and lots of sensors etc. They can have nuisance tripout problems etc etc and need a highly skilled tech (of which there are few). My point is that everything that is advertised as "Green" is not always so green/userfriendly/reliable/ like the salespeople want you to believe.
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Old 04-07-2009, 06:21 PM   #23
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What's your charge per kwh out there in NE OH?
Average price is $0.1013 KW/h I believe.
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Old 04-07-2009, 07:23 PM   #24
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Average price is $0.1013 KW/h I believe.
So straight elec. heat will cost you ~$2.90 per therm and a heat pump might cost you ~$1 per therm.
My leaky 2200 sq. ft. 40 yr. old house in Feb used 270 therms of Nat. Gas for ~900 HDD.


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