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Old 11-24-2010, 12:41 PM   #1
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Drywall is wet from some water source??


Mr Landlord site said I'd get help here.
My residence, Bethesda, MD, built 1951-Capecod style house. Reason I had a chimeny guy come to give me an evaluation/estimate yesterday--I have drywall on the top floor just under the chimney that is getting wet-slowly. I had the flashing redone in 2004 and it appears to have been done right. No one says the roof needs to be replaced--has 5-7 years of life left.
Carrier brand furnace Input 88 BTUs, output 69 BTUs. Airtemp rise 40-70. It is a high efficiency furnace put in by the last owner--just b/f they sold house, in 2001--I bought house. Furnace Vent is 5" in diameter. Waterheater vent is 3" in diameter.
Waterheater was inspected by WSSC in 2004 after it was installed and pronounced OK.
This chimney guy who said I needed this new Stainless Steel chimney Liner, said that the waterheater install is WRONG?!
Not sure what next to be doing, so further help is Most AppreciatedA chimney man who's been in business for 33 yrs in my area came and looked at my furnace/hot water heater and chimney in my basement.
My furnace gives off 88 BTUs when running; it was installed in 2001. Water heater has 40 BTUs.
This chimney man says that my chimney is not accommodating the activity from my water heater and furnace correctly and because of that, condensation is building up inside the chimney, causing water to enter the house.
He says, The way to fix this and get rid of the condensation is to install a stainless steel liner into the length of the Chimney. And, to marry up the two vents -now separately entering the chimney in the basement so that both the Furnace vent AND the waterheater vent BOTH enter the chimney via ONE opening... Cost for liner and labor $1750.00.
Chimney man says that the way my current set up now is--one entry into the chimney for the water heater and a separate entry into the chimney for the furnace is also causing carbon dioxide to enter my house. That gets the homeowner's attention!!
Does this sound like a fair price? It is suppose to take 2 men 1/2 of a day to do the job. The liner is dropped into chimney from the roof. Everyone on Mr Landlord told me to Not do this--I was being ripped off!!

Not sure what next to be doing, so further help is Most Appreciated.
I can't continue to throw money at this in a guess as to how to fix it....

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Old 11-24-2010, 05:53 PM   #2
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Drywall is wet from some water source??


I don't think that's a bad price for a stainless liner installed. You can DIY and save some money though. Get a friend to help and have fun on the roof.

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Old 11-24-2010, 06:28 PM   #3
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Drywall is wet from some water source??


I am not an expert on Maryland code. I thought high efficiency furnaces were mostly exhausted to outside by a shorter route, often with PVC pipe because gas temps are so low.

Give more detail to experts on this site as to what level furnace is on. And, if you are allowed to vent out the side of your building rather than up the chimney. Take a look at what your neighbors have done. See if plastic pipe with a downturned elbow comes out the side of yours and surrounding buildings.

Also, flashing done correctly in 2004 may not be good in 2010 and may need only a little silicone sealant. But that mostly would be when it rains, not when the furnace is on.

Lastly, advice only: if you're going to get contractor opinions, don't get a 'chimney guy' for this. Get a bona fide HVAC/licensed plumber.
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Old 11-25-2010, 02:05 AM   #4
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Drywall is wet from some water source??


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Originally Posted by diyorpay View Post
I am not an expert on Maryland code. I thought high efficiency furnaces were mostly exhausted to outside by a shorter route, often with PVC pipe because gas temps are so low.
The OP's furnace is not a high efficiency one, it's a mid efficiency (88 mbtuh input, 69 mbtuh output).
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Old 11-25-2010, 02:22 AM   #5
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Drywall is wet from some water source??


It's very hard to tell without seeing exact conditions. The #1 product of combustion is Water Vapor so i am sure the exhausting chimney could very well be the problem. You have a 5" flue which tells me you probably have a 80%. I do HVAC in Md, and my opinion would be have a HVAC guy look at it.

You have a 9yr old unit there and the 1,750 to save a 9yr old unit's exhaust is not cost effective. I would install a 90+ furnace while the 1,500 MD rebate (Dec 31) is still is around, and exhaust out PVC flues. This way the furnace is not being used by the chimney. I would then have the chimney cleaned for the remaining appliances using it. Again, i would have it looked at in this case. This is only a opinion given the facts provided.
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Old 11-25-2010, 06:25 AM   #6
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Drywall is wet from some water source??


Quote:
Originally Posted by hvac benny View Post
The OP's furnace is not a high efficiency one, it's a mid efficiency (88 mbtuh input, 69 mbtuh output).
Yes she was told it was High eff, It's not with that 5" flue pipe.

I like the idea of putting that money into a Hi eff unit and not installing the liner if it's deemed safe.

Last edited by COLDIRON; 11-25-2010 at 06:28 AM. Reason: added text
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Old 11-25-2010, 06:42 AM   #7
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Drywall is wet from some water source??


Quote:
Originally Posted by Budman21901 View Post
It's very hard to tell without seeing exact conditions. The #1 product of combustion is Water Vapor so i am sure the exhausting chimney could very well be the problem. You have a 5" flue which tells me you probably have a 80%. I do HVAC in Md, and my opinion would be have a HVAC guy look at it.

You have a 9yr old unit there and the 1,750 to save a 9yr old unit's exhaust is not cost effective. I would install a 90+ furnace while the 1,500 MD rebate (Dec 31) is still is around, and exhaust out PVC flues. This way the furnace is not being used by the chimney. I would then have the chimney cleaned for the remaining appliances using it. Again, i would have it looked at in this case. This is only a opinion given the facts provided.
If she were to have the furnace removed and replaced with a high efficiency condensing furnace. then the water heater becomes orphaned. And the chimney now requires a liner just to have the water heater alone use it.
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Old 11-25-2010, 06:53 AM   #8
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Drywall is wet from some water source??


Peggy.

A SS liner is expensive. But unlike cheaper aluminum liners. It won't rot out in 5, 10, or 15 years.

Do you know what the inside dimensions of the chimney are? A water heater with a 3" breech(flue opening)is not allowed to be vented into a chimney that is more then 7"X7", or 49 sq inches. While your chimney may be of a size that is allowable. What can still happen. is that when the furnace is not running. The chimney gets to cold(if its on an outside wall of the house) and the flue gasses condense.

A liner helps to prevent this. Since its smaller, and thinner, it takes very little heat to warm it up enough to prevent this condensation.

As for the CO coming out because of the way the furnace and water heater are connected separately to the chimney. BS

In reality. Every time the furnace runs. You will get some spillage out of the water heaters dilution hood. Weather they are separate tie ins or not. And the liner has a tendency to make it happen more then just your current open chimney.

You might want to get another price or 2 on having it lined.

Keep in mind that aluminum liners are cheaper. And can be installed for less because they cost less. but, they can pit/corrode out in just a few years. Causing you to need to pay to have it removed, and another liner installed again. Generally, the cost of having 2 aluminum liners installed, is more then having 1 SS liner installed once.



PS: If this is a rental property. Then you probably already know that there is no tax credit for installing a high efficiency furnace in a property that you don't live in.
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Old 11-25-2010, 11:33 AM   #9
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Drywall is wet from some water source??


My chimney is in the dead middle of the house.
I am so glad you wrote me 'old trademan'
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Old 11-25-2010, 11:40 AM   #10
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Drywall is wet from some water source??


I went to my basement and measured chimney brick dimensions--2 feet X 5.75 feet is external dimensions of chimney in basement of my three floor house/capecod. My chimney is in the center of the house. House built 1951.
Going to roof to do a measurement is really not attractive--my roof is very slanty--a V shaped roof hard to move/walk on...

Someone on MrLandlord said I needed to get a BPI expert out here re: the furnace.
Would be happy to upgrade this RESIDENCE furnace if that would eliminate this problem! So glad I didn't spend that kind of $ on a chimney liner! when upgrading the furnace sounds like a smarter, long term approach.
I just need to make the Right next decision and not further throw $$ at this in the hopes of landing on the correct solution.
Thanks!
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Old 11-25-2010, 11:51 AM   #11
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Drywall is wet from some water source??


You really are not listening to the Old Tradesman....who already stated you still need a liner if if you go with a new furnace...the condensation issue is not going to go away because its a problem with the chimney.
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Old 11-25-2010, 12:21 PM   #12
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Drywall is wet from some water source??


My understanding from the chimney man who recommended this SS liner was this:
The condensation that is building up in the chimney IS very related to the BTUs that my furnace (and waterheater) is giving out/using.
If I had a Higher efficiency furnace this condensation issue/amount will be effected to the positive (reduced/eliminated).
Have I missed something?
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Old 11-25-2010, 12:27 PM   #13
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Drywall is wet from some water source??


Someone said that what is BEST is to upgrade to a More high efficiency furnace AND install a tankless waterheater.
that puts the chimeny out of commission-- I don't use my fireplace at all and have no plans to.
costwise, what will the likely pricetag be for new furnace and new tanklesswater heater?

Thanks.
Since I am not in a huge rush, does buying them via the internet save me $$?
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Old 11-25-2010, 01:14 PM   #14
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Drywall is wet from some water source??


If you eliminate using the chimney, then you don't need a liner. If you keep the existing waterheater venting into the chimney, you need aliner.
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Old 11-25-2010, 02:25 PM   #15
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Drywall is wet from some water source??


Quote:
Originally Posted by PeggyMD View Post
Someone said that what is BEST is to upgrade to a More high efficiency furnace AND install a tankless waterheater.
that puts the chimeny out of commission-- I don't use my fireplace at all and have no plans to.
costwise, what will the likely pricetag be for new furnace and new tanklesswater heater?

Thanks.
Since I am not in a huge rush, does buying them via the internet save me $$?
You might want to be sitting down and have a stiff drink in your hand. With a large napkin under the drink. When you hear the price of installing a tankless water heater.

If you are unable to install it yourself.

While I don't care if you line the chimney, or get a new 90% plus furnace and tankless water heater. Its your $7,600.00 to spend.


Who ever told you that just installing anew high efficiency furnace will cure everything. Is just trying to make a quick sell. And not correct anything. You would still need a chimney liner for the water heater.

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