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Old 08-31-2014, 01:42 PM   #16
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Do Evap-coolers & AC both work same principals?


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this cwo lady reminds of my former self.

for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. ??

I sell and I sell at twice the price for the exact same equipment. your 2k offensive is chump change and not worth batting an eye at.

foreign? domestic? I doubt you even know the difference, but brand name matters not, I do. I sell, cause I know.
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Old 08-31-2014, 01:49 PM   #17
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Do Evap-coolers & AC both work same principals?


I'm very friendly but I do believe I owe this site, not you so make no mistake about that, an apology.

Quotable or non, immature and irrelevant resistive nuisance equates to heat and I don't play around. I'll hold my tongue from here on in. Thanks.
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Old 08-31-2014, 02:07 PM   #18
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Do Evap-coolers & AC both work same principals?


I'm a long time and very helpful member of this site. Hospitality this site exudes in multiples and without question and why I'm a proud member, why I feel a defensive as to your cowardice and juvenile approach to being here.

Not a single thing have you said has helped anyone, not a single thing. all I've observed is delinquent attention deficit, "look at me, look at me!!! I'm re-inventing the wheel as why pay anyone to do anything as I can do it myself!!" then do it first and talk about it later.

I like to argue too, but my arguments hold substance. that's something I myself have learned along the way.

kwik, my apologies.

Hmm, I should quote that...
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Old 08-31-2014, 03:05 PM   #19
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Do Evap-coolers & AC both work same principals?


Lighten up Doc.

The internet is one great big sandbox to play in.

Contractor Talk and RSES is the place for HVAC purity.
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Old 09-01-2014, 05:26 PM   #20
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Do Evap-coolers & AC both work same principals?


I've been doing evap cooling for the past 30 years and have installed them in all kinds of duct situations, all kinds of controls and so on and at the end of the day, its all a big pain.
I have piggybacked coolers into packaged rooftop units in the past, it was very popular in the old days and most of the time, it worked like crap and was noisy.
For an evaporative cooler to work well, you must feel the airflow from one. Having a cooler running through restrictive ductwork, doesnt let you feel a strong breeze and you get real uncomfortable, real fast.

Another downside to evap cooling, is that when it is turned off and the a/c is running, you lose cool air and gain heat through the cooler, dampers or not. I had a similar setup in our house and after listening to my wife complain about how much she hates coolers, I removed all the separate cooler ducting, sealed all the holes and installed a properly sized gas pack and never looked back.
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Old 09-01-2014, 06:03 PM   #21
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Do Evap-coolers & AC both work same principals?


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I've been doing evap cooling for the past 30 years and have installed them in all kinds of duct situations, all kinds of controls and so on and at the end of the day, its all a big pain.
I have piggybacked coolers into packaged rooftop units in the past, it was very popular in the old days and most of the time, it worked like crap and was noisy.
For an evaporative cooler to work well, you must feel the airflow from one. Having a cooler running through restrictive ductwork, doesnt let you feel a strong breeze and you get real uncomfortable, real fast.

Another downside to evap cooling, is that when it is turned off and the a/c is running, you lose cool air and gain heat through the cooler, dampers or not. I had a similar setup in our house and after listening to my wife complain about how much she hates coolers, I removed all the separate cooler ducting, sealed all the holes and installed a properly sized gas pack and never looked back.
I currently have a Brisa 5000 CFM 1/2 HP motor/blower window unit with three 2x4F excelsior pads. It blows strait into the front room (no duct-work) and exits all the bedrooms even the laundry room and garage. You can really feel it and it brings the AC thermostat down to 77 when its over 100F outside. Ceiling fans in every room help with both AC & cooler providing wind-chill affect. Because I have a low seer AC Goodman unit, the cooler really helps with the electric bill when its dry and the humidity is below 18%. The cooler works so well I had to put a thermostat on it to control cooling as one morning when I first bought it the temperature had fallen to 60F inside the house. However when the monsoon season hits and humidity climes past 20%, the cooler stops working and I have to close the exhaust damper shut the cooler down and power up the AC. Once I install my mini-split ductless system to replace the goodman, I plan to use the attic ductwork vents as an exhaust system for the cooler which will exhaust cooler air from all room vents to the attic in reverse to a central return duct where it will be re-routed outside when opened electrically.
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Old 09-02-2014, 10:22 AM   #22
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Do Evap-coolers & AC both work same principals?


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I currently have a Brisa 5000 CFM 1/2 HP motor/blower window unit with three 2x4F excelsior pads. It blows strait into the front room (no duct-work) and exits all the bedrooms even the laundry room and garage. You can really feel it and it brings the AC thermostat down to 77 when its over 100F outside. Ceiling fans in every room help with both AC & cooler providing wind-chill affect. Because I have a low seer AC Goodman unit, the cooler really helps with the electric bill when its dry and the humidity is below 18%. The cooler works so well I had to put a thermostat on it to control cooling as one morning when I first bought it the temperature had fallen to 60F inside the house. However when the monsoon season hits and humidity climes past 20%, the cooler stops working and I have to close the exhaust damper shut the cooler down and power up the AC. Once I install my mini-split ductless system to replace the goodman, I plan to use the attic ductwork vents as an exhaust system for the cooler which will exhaust cooler air from all room vents to the attic in reverse to a central return duct where it will be re-routed outside when opened electrically.

If you plan to use the current duct system as a cooler exhaust, it wont work well as a static system, it will have to be power vented with some sort of exhaust fan and that will drive operating costs up.
By the time you run the swamp cooler and the exhaust fan, you would be better off with a properly sized, higher seer a/c system.

We ran coolers in our house for years and like I mentioned earlier, my wife hated it. I knew there had to be some other cheap solution to cooling this place. After insulating the heck out of our attic and sealing things up, I was able to run a much smaller packaged unit and our bills are cheap. I'm running the a/c at 70-71, day and night and never turn it up. I'm also probably running the smallest a/c in Vegas, for the size of our house and thought it wouldnt work well but it was just the opposite, it works great.
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Old 09-02-2014, 11:40 AM   #23
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Do Evap-coolers & AC both work same principals?


I still don't understand how one mini-split will replace a central system that does many rooms but what the heck do I know.

Sounds like a good science project though.

Add some solar panels and a windmill and the ideal system could be had.
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Old 09-02-2014, 12:06 PM   #24
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Do Evap-coolers & AC both work same principals?


No, using the existing ductwork as exhaust will work becausethe only time static pressure come into play is for delivery of condition air. Two 12" motorized air tight dams normally closed located just before the coil will actuate open only when the cooler circuit is made and the AC circuit is off, cheap and simple. This will allow continued use of the furnace and fan only option for distribution of a large 50k btu single head mini-split ductless system if necessary. Although I will probably use at least 3 small ductless systems with 2 heads each to shut down zones and save big as I retired at 47, kids gone and a widower its just me in this 1600sf home.
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Old 09-02-2014, 02:48 PM   #25
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Do Evap-coolers & AC both work same principals?


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No, using the existing ductwork as exhaust will work becausethe only time static pressure come into play is for delivery of condition air. Two 12" motorized air tight dams normally closed located just before the coil will actuate open only when the cooler circuit is made and the AC circuit is off, cheap and simple. This will allow continued use of the furnace and fan only option for distribution of a large 50k btu single head mini-split ductless system if necessary. Although I will probably use at least 3 small ductless systems with 2 heads each to shut down zones and save big as I retired at 47, kids gone and a widower its just me in this 1600sf home.
Yeah but what I'm saying is, there is no way that the cooler will push enough air through the back bedroom vents to be effective, it just wont work.

Take for example. Lets say you have a 6" vent in a bedroom. It is just not enough relief for that bedroom, especially pushing through ductwork back to the furnace.
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Old 09-02-2014, 04:25 PM   #26
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Do Evap-coolers & AC both work same principals?


Static pressure will come into play with using the current exhaust duct. Since the swamp cooler will have to over come the resistance of the former return duct.
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Old 09-02-2014, 06:18 PM   #27
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Do Evap-coolers & AC both work same principals?


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Static pressure will come into play with using the current exhaust duct. Since the swamp cooler will have to over come the resistance of the former return duct.
he will probably have more air go up the return, as opposed to all the smaller supply vents. He wants the cooler to be able to cool all the bedrooms also and I'm just saying that his supply vents in the bedrooms will not be enough on their own for adequate relief. He will end up with hot stuffy rooms, quite possibly the whole house may end up stuffy.

I've built large barometric relief dampers into attic doors of some houses in the past and although the idea of keeping windows shut and cooling the attic is a good idea, it still didnt let quite enough air out.

The OP needs to make sure he has adequate attic ventilation also, or the air he relieves from the dampers at the furnace, will not have an easy escape.

I'm not trying to be negative to the OP's ideas, its just that I've been there and seen that with evaps and it doesnt always work. In reading the OP's posts, it looks like he does get some higher humidity and poor exhaust airflow will make his house quite sticky.
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Old 09-02-2014, 07:14 PM   #28
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Do Evap-coolers & AC both work same principals?


Well you must mean that the flex ducting itself is going to provide too much resistance, becasue I know for a fact that simple vents are placed in room ceilings so that large through-wall or window installed Coolers can cool the attic as well. Ill just have to try it and see how much force that 5000 CFM blower can push. Ill tell you one thing its strong enough to push the flaps open on our cat doors from the laundry room all the way to the end of the garage, even with the windows cracked. Ill put some streamers on those 12" zone control dampers venting into the attic space cooling the roof. It will either work or it wont. But so that I dont waste money I will test it first by pulling off the main branch duct. if its comes out there full force it will work.

As far as the large return dust in the front room I already considered that problem and will cover it with a magnet-sheet.
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Old 09-02-2014, 07:30 PM   #29
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Do Evap-coolers & AC both work same principals?


Through an opening in a ceiling is one hing. Through a section of duct is another.
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Old 09-03-2014, 06:30 AM   #30
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Do Evap-coolers & AC both work same principals?


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Through an opening in a ceiling is one hing. Through a section of duct is another.
Well here is an interesting fact I just remembered. When I first balanced my swamp cooler for window size exhaust throughout the house, I discovered I was getting exhaust competition from the 3 bathroom vents and stove vent. The stove was especially noticeable as it would cause gas flame interruption from terbulance and looking up inside the vents all of which have 4" aluminum ducting to the roof, you can see the dead motor fan blades spinning like crazy. This required me to tell guest that when the swamp cooler is on to leave the bathroom doors open or closed depending if a guest wanted a window opened ( cracked) or closed. So you see pressure that builds in a modern snug home from a coolers 5000 cfm blower wheel will push past any so called static resistance IMO. But don't worry I'll document the results if the let you post pics here.

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