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Old 10-05-2009, 01:50 PM   #16
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Dayton Gas Furnace burners wont stay lit


check the wiring to the flame rod....are all the burners bright blue flamed? if not they could be clogged...not burning 100% this could cause buildup on the flame rod as well as toxic fumes. It could either be the flame amplifier (control board) or a bad signal due to old/poor wiring or a bad flame rod. (you can use a ohm meter to check the resistance across the flame rod.

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Old 10-05-2009, 02:25 PM   #17
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Dayton Gas Furnace burners wont stay lit


HI,

As you have already learned from my posts, I am far from an HVAC expert, but I will say this is the third occasion in which I have repaired this furnace on my own - and of course with help from forum's like this.

That being said, how about the thermostat? Is it old? Mercury? If it is old, go to Ace and get a $7 cheapie. This worked for me one year when the furnace was running similar.

Check for a flue/pipe blockage. A blockage will deprive the burner flame of oxygen and shut the flame off. I work for a chimney company so I know a bit about this stuff. You should have at least one little metal door at the base of your chimney, this is your clean-out door. Grab a flashlight and mirror small enough to stick in the clean out door when opened. If you can see daylight with the mirror and flashlight, then the problem isn't with a blockage in the chimney. The pipe on the other hand may be harder for you to check (and I am not so sure I recommend it). You would have to carefully dislodge it from the furnace and check for build up. Blockages can occure from anything from an animals nest to buildup to a collapsed chimney liner.

Other than that, my research led me to a few conclusions with my situation. Flame sensor rod, pressure switch, fan limit switch(although this was highly unlikely) or the gas valve. I had the gas valve replaced last year so that was on the bottom of my list.

Then there's that pesky IFC board. Are no lights coming on at all? that could indicate a problem with the board or do you just have no led lights? How old is the unit? is your basement damp/wet?

I would also go back and check the wiring to that flame rod. Maybe something just came loose. I find with these units that sometimes it is just common sense involved. Of course I will only mess with the electrical aspects, never anything to do with the actual gas operations i.e. gas valves etc...

Also, a voltage meter will help you figure out whats wrong. A certain amount of juice is supposed to be delivered to each component.

Hope this gives you some ideas. The guys on this forum will come back with some better ones I'm sure, as they are experienced, licensed HVAC guys and were a lot of help to me!!

Let me know about the IFC board and if it has LED lights.
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Old 10-05-2009, 03:31 PM   #18
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Dayton Gas Furnace burners wont stay lit


Thank you for the quick response!

There is only a green light on the board, and it's not blinking at all (which the manual says would indicate an issue). I have checked all of the connections, but I'm wondering if I should have replaced the cables along with the flame sensor. The flames are very blue and the rod still looks like it's in the flame and it's pretty silver (same as when I installed last week). Could there be residue on it that you can't see? I think because the flames are pretty strong and blue, it doesn't seem to be something clogging the pipes.

I'm going to double check the wiring and other suggestions given and respond shortly. I am a computer geek and have never worked on a furnace but I'm also not ready to spend the money on having someone else troubleshoot it just yet. I had a furnace repairman come by last week just to evaluate the problem and he told me they would charge me $290 just to change the flame sensor which is why I did it myself. He used a voltage meter and said everything looked okay but if I wanted to buy one where would I get it? Is it a tool I can buy at the local hardware store?

He did say if the flame sensor didn't fix it we would have to have them install a new furnace control board. They want to charge $474 for the part and probably another $200 for the labor. I've seen them online for less than $200 and don't mind switching it out myself if that's the next step but I was hoping to be fairly certain that was the problem before doing that...

My furnace is in our insulated basement and I live in Colorado where it's very dry. The furnace is 6 years old.
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Old 10-05-2009, 04:30 PM   #19
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Dayton Gas Furnace burners wont stay lit


HI.

You can buy the voltage meters at Home Depot. As far as the residue on the rod, that is out of my league but I don't think there would be a lot of build up after only one week.

My first guess is that there is something not right with the wiring. It seems strange that if the board was shot it would run fine for a week... I know the kit to replace that wiring is about $30.00 online.

As far as replacing the board, you can easily do it yourself! If I can do it, anyone can! Just mark your wires and your good. The first one I had replaced by the local gas company for $450.00, the second one I installed myself for $150.00 - I kept going through boards because of basement flooding.

Again, check all the wiring and I would take that sensor out, like Viper said, it could simply be a bad flame sensor rod.

Good Luck
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Old 10-05-2009, 04:36 PM   #20
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Dayton Gas Furnace burners wont stay lit


I checked all of the wiring and looked okay to me...I did notice that there's a "flame" LED light that comes on when it's trying to sense the flame - that comes on and stays steady when it's working and now isn't coming on at all...
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Old 10-05-2009, 04:41 PM   #21
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Dayton Gas Furnace burners wont stay lit


I would take out that flame sensor and return it for a new one. My Led flame light wasn't coming on either when my sensor was bad. Stranger things have happened than buying a bad part. If it's only been a week, I am sure they will exchange it for you.
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Old 10-05-2009, 04:46 PM   #22
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Dayton Gas Furnace burners wont stay lit


Sounds good! That's what I'll try first - just get the whole kit this time...I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks!!!
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Old 10-05-2009, 04:58 PM   #23
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Dayton Gas Furnace burners wont stay lit


Quote:
Originally Posted by whopang View Post
I replaced the flame sensor and all was well for 5 days....If it was the IFC wouldn't I see blinking lights or would I have been able to get the thing working at all??
The flame sensor is being overstressed by your as-yet-undiscovered-root-cause and holds on for five days anyway?
You have a link to your sensor?
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Old 10-05-2009, 05:06 PM   #24
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Dayton Gas Furnace burners wont stay lit


How would I know if it's overstressed? What do you mean "do you have a link"?

Something apparently "went out" and could definitely be that the place sold me a bad flame sensor or I need to replace the wiring for the flame sensor. In any case, seems like the least expensive thing to try since I just found the kit on ebay for $25.
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Old 10-05-2009, 05:12 PM   #25
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Dayton Gas Furnace burners wont stay lit


there really isn't a way to over stress your flame rod...it is just metal material. i would bet there is poor signal quality or a flame amplifier is messed up/intermittent.

The flame light will light when there is a flame sensed from the rod, this will only light up once the other interlocks have been proved.
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Old 10-05-2009, 05:35 PM   #26
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Dayton Gas Furnace burners wont stay lit


Quote:
Originally Posted by Viper16 View Post
there really isn't a way to over stress your flame rod...it is just metal material. i would bet there is poor signal quality or a flame amplifier is messed up/intermittent.

The flame light will light when there is a flame sensed from the rod, this will only light up once the other interlocks have been proved.
So the few days working was a coincidence or
just due to changing out a flame rod and just putting back in the old flame rod would have the same effect?
Sounds like big bucks. . .
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Old 10-06-2009, 10:13 AM   #27
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Dayton Gas Furnace burners wont stay lit


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Originally Posted by Yoyizit View Post
So the few days working was a coincidence or
just due to changing out a flame rod and just putting back in the old flame rod would have the same effect?
Sounds like big bucks. . .
I took Viper's comments to mean that he agreed I should change out the rod and wiring - which you get when you purchase a flame rod kit - because if I changed out the rod and there's still a weak signal, it could be the connection...let me know if I interpreted that incorrectly. I guess I could have just bought the kit without the rod but that's harder to find and it can't hurt to have an extra around.

I don't think it's too expensive since I only spent $25 for the kit...
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Old 10-06-2009, 12:30 PM   #28
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Dayton Gas Furnace burners wont stay lit


Quote:
Originally Posted by whopang View Post
I took Viper's comments to mean that he agreed I should change out the rod and wiring - which you get when you purchase a flame rod kit - because if I changed out the rod and there's still a weak signal, it could be the connection...let me know if I interpreted that incorrectly. I guess I could have just bought the kit without the rod but that's harder to find and it can't hurt to have an extra around.

I don't think it's too expensive since I only spent $25 for the kit...
Yes, without seeing a link to the specs on the components I can't judge failure likelihoods.

Just don't get on a Slippery Slope where you keep changing out parts because you've already spent money on the earlier parts.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk_costs
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Old 10-06-2009, 12:50 PM   #29
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Dayton Gas Furnace burners wont stay lit


Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoyizit View Post
So the few days working was a coincidence or
just due to changing out a flame rod and just putting back in the old flame rod would have the same effect?
Sounds like big bucks. . .
if he bought a brand new flame rod, and it is still giving him issues...I would think that it would be the flame rod amplifier or bad wiring to the flame rod that would be giving him the issues.

OP, make sure there are no power wires near or touching the flame rod cable. If the flame rod is old...it may need to be changed out or cleaned.
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Old 10-06-2009, 04:52 PM   #30
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Dayton Gas Furnace burners wont stay lit


Quote:
Originally Posted by Viper16 View Post
I would think that it would be the flame rod amplifier
How much for a new amp? This seems to be a good candidate.

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