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windowguy 04-28-2009 05:08 PM

Coolant lasts just 3 years?? York.
Just started 3rd summer season on new York 1.5 ton unit. Distance from AC/condensor to air handler in the attic is about 25 feet of pipe. Started AC yesterday (this will be just the 3rd summer on this unit) and its only blowing 76 degrees.

York is sending a local guy to come take a look, are they going to tell me that my coolant needs a refresh after just 2 full summers? does a warranty cover the coolant?

Or could it be something else?

newtech 04-28-2009 05:24 PM


Originally Posted by windowguy (Post 266824)
just started 3rd summer season on new york 1.5 ton unit. Distance from ac/condensor to air handler in the attic is about 25 feet of pipe. Started ac yesterday (this will be just the 3rd summer on this unit) and its only blowing 76 degrees.

York is sending a local guy to come take a look, are they going to tell me that my coolant needs a refresh after just 2 full summers? 1.couldn't tell you, don't have a crystal ball does a warranty cover the coolant? 2. Depends where the leak is if any.

or could it be something else?

3. Yes

SULTINI 04-28-2009 05:54 PM

Coolant/Refrigerant should last forever if it don't leak out it should not wear out.
Now you could have a leak somewhere then it has to be repaired and recharged with Refrigerant.

Most warranty's are for 1 year parts and labor with 5/10 on the compressor only.
Good luck

biggles 04-28-2009 05:54 PM

if the tech doesn't do a nitrogen test to 300 PSI and check all the connections and find the leak he is by CFC ruling no allowed to REFRESH :no:the freon.notify YORK and tell them what is going onif it is anything less then a full leak check and revac to 500 MICRONS before the freon is reinstalled.the freon leaking out especially during the running of the system is also losing droplets of refrigerant oil and the next thing to go will be the compressor.someplace on those lines there is an oil residue on a fitting were the leak is...check the insulation on the suction if you feel any oil that is your leak.

beenthere 04-28-2009 06:25 PM


Originally Posted by biggles (Post 266846)
if the tech doesn't do a nitrogen test to 300 PSI and check all the connections and find the leak he is by CFC ruling no allowed to REFRESH :no:the freon.

There is no such CFC/EPA regulation. For systems containing less then 50 pounds normal operating charge. Never has been.

The unit doesn't hold enough refrigerant to be under any of the leak repair requirement rules or regs.

The EPA hasn't required full leak repair for several years now.

While I agee.
If it is low on charge.
A full recovery of any remaining refrigerant. And a 300 PSIG nitrogen leak check is a good thing.
You might want to tell people to be prepared to pay a large bill for this.

Most leaks can be found without recovering the charge. And then if its not a leak inside the condenser.
Pumping the charge back to the condenser.
Doing so, saves most customers money.

There is no regulation, or law against gas and go of systems containing less then 50 pounds of normal operating charge in the USA.

biggles 04-30-2009 08:43 AM

you can't leak check with exsisting freon in the system the customer called because the unit isn't where are you getting the test pressure from.what plant you from.:jester:....with pumping the charge into the condenser and doing a low side leak check and hi side liquid line check.once nitrogen is intro'd into the system the charge is compremised. a good tech will check the king valve to see if there is liquid in the LL line if ot nitro will be added and the balance of the charge used for leak detection.pump the system up to 300PSI and the leak will find you...then VENT:whistling2: the test pressure and pull a VAC:thumbsup: till the tech can show the home owner 500 or lower MICRON reading to verify the leak was fixed and the system is tight for the new here for the home owner is sonme thing you can request that i want to see that reading before a new charge is installed........and time is the big concern here but putting freon in every season with that gas and go is for bushers and fly by nighters:thumbup: with the line......i check it for leakes after i topped off the charge to get you running but couldn't find a leak:huh: see you next season..its your choice homeowner?

beenthere 04-30-2009 09:06 AM

Lot of systems have more then enough refrigerant pressure in them to check for leaks.

A system that holds 7 pounds of operating charge. Can still have 4 pounds left in it.
Which means the saturated pressure left in the system will be enough to find most leaks.

I have nothing against charging a customer several hundred dollars to find a leak.
And then what ever to fix the leak.
Plus remove the old LLFD and install a new one.
Then vacuum the system and recharge.

Depending on what company he would have come out and do that.
Anywhere from 500 to 1000 bucks if it can be brazed.
More if it takes a new part that isn't under warranty.

Gas and go, 100 to 125 bucks.

I don't care which way they do it.

But telling people that the EPA prohibits it, to make them pay for it, is stealing (theft by deception). :furious:

windowguy 04-30-2009 08:41 PM

$500 to $1000 bucks to check for a leak on a system that is 27 months old?!?!? And a system that only gets run 3 months out of the year?

If that's true i'm going after the original installer for a piece of his arse! He didnt return initial phone calls so i'm going with a York local tech before the next 80 degree front rolls in.

But this is crazy for me to shell that amount of money out for something i still consider brand new.

So i should make sure to tell the York tech i need a diagnosis first before he whops me with a $500 bill.

beenthere 04-30-2009 08:47 PM

Thats 500 to 1000 to repair it.

Good chance its one of the coils.

They should still be under part warranty.

But, if you didn't buy an extended labor warranty. Your responsible for the labor. Any additional parts, including refrigerant. liquid line filter drier, and misc brazing charges.

biggles 05-02-2009 07:24 AM

my opnions on this are from the home owners side that he should not be paying ever year for this gas/go won't tolorate this with a tire on your car you constanly had to add air to for that 32 lbs,and then having to pay .75 cents for the air:eek:.once the tech hooks his guages up to your system he is married to it till it is want to save money before they come in check the entire copper line runout for oil residue on all the soldered/brazed fittings,and rotor locks into the condenser and air handler.if you can access the air handler coil check the copper capillaries from the liquid line and metering device.sure it is time spent and who pays for it is always a GRAY:huh: area.then does the original contractor have it on record from day 1 the unit pulled down to a 250/500 Micron test before charging and start-up.the size of the charge and whats left isn't enough to leak check it running system with a JUMP on the LP:wink: to get it to run then if its R-22 your looking at 40-50PSI suction with a tops 175 PSI head and standing 110 PSI unit off:no: compared to a 300 nitro test followed up by a VAC check it is all time $$$$$$$ somebody needs to pay and it shouldn't be the home owner.if the homeowner calls the original installer and tells him he wants a nitro/vac test and eat the freon lost since it was installed:laughing:on the entire system his response is going to be "who is going to pay me to do that" if the tech pulls a VAC and can't get it below 5000 microns there is a leak in the system..if the system is tight the vac will drop like a rock within 1 hour of running....QUESTION what freon is in your system?in the commercial side of the HVAC field you can't add more then 9% of the total charge on a system without looking for a leak because you will be back as you experienced!

beenthere 05-02-2009 10:51 AM

Might be a coil that is under warranty.

But. 1 year labor warranty is gone.

The home owner wil now pay labor, refrigerant, and LLFD charges.

The customer may try and demand something. But, companies don't always bend to what a customer demands.

Any commercial unit with a receiver, cacn lose a lot more then 9% a year and still cool.

There isn't even a requirement to repair a commercial or industrial leak to a no leak state.

While personally, I would want the leak fixed/repaired.

You might want to tell people to be ready for a big bill when you tell them everything that should be done.

Neither of us controls what the company that person uses will do.
So remind them, they could be looking at a 1000 dollar repair.

yuri 05-02-2009 12:49 PM

And you wonder why people don't want to buy the extended warranty. Usually works out to about $50/yr.:huh:

windowguy 05-02-2009 03:31 PM

here's my update. FWIW i was stood up 2 times by the locally directed York technician (well, had to leave the house after waiting 3 hours past expected arrival time.. but that's a different thread altogether.. lol..)

but anyway.. i got a friend of a friend to come over and he told me there was SOME freon left it was not totally depleted. He checked the pumps and electrical and concluded it was just a leak. A leak that took 3 years to occur so he gave me two options. 1 was a gas and go for a hundred bucks to get me running the other was a full blown leak check that would take him hours and much much more money. he said since this leak took 3 years to manifest it is probably extremely small and therefore very hard to find.

I told him to gas it up and i will check for oil on my own over the next several weeks and get back to him. If the system fails very quickly then he will come back for extensive test.

I am very satisfied paying this guy a hundred and the option of finding a drip on my own over time. I'm pleased to know there are still some good guys out there willing to stop by on a saturday for an emergency and give me options for the repair.

Thanks for the feedback here though.. it helped out alot

texas115115 05-03-2009 12:44 AM

WOW GAs and go
GAS IN GO cost you a lot of money in the long run. A simple dye test will find a leek in just a few mins. Cost not including repair about 100.00 dollors. Then you know what has to happen. Also I would call and chew some a** about the tech not showing up. Good luck

biggles 05-03-2009 11:11 AM

3 years is a long time when the system is running the liquid/discharge lines can go as hi as 260 PSI with the suction running 60-80 PSI depending on the heat load within the house on a start.if you can put the time in and touch all the piping brazing/rotor locks...spray bottle with dishwasher liquid and water:wink: and narrow down the leak point its money not spent in tech time....enjoy the summer hope the posts help in directions taken with people walking in on your system

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