Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > HVAC

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 07-22-2012, 09:44 PM   #16
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: MD
Posts: 272
Rewards Points: 0
Share |
Default

Condenser and fan not running, contactor engaged, have two capacitors


don't waste the fuses unhook the compressor and see if it does not blow

turnermech is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2012, 09:48 PM   #17
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 114
Rewards Points: 0
Default

Condenser and fan not running, contactor engaged, have two capacitors


Ok, if it is a bad compressor, why is the fan not running? Does one blown fuse cause only half the juice needed for the fan to get there (hence the fan "trying" to spin)?
7.62 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2012, 04:48 AM   #18
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Augusta, GA
Posts: 369
Rewards Points: 0
Default

Condenser and fan not running, contactor engaged, have two capacitors


If you want to keep eating fuses:

1) Remove the wiring from the fan motor (making careful notes to insure you can rewire it later), install new fuses. Do they blow? If so, the fan is not the culprit. If they do blow, and if the system seems to run normally otherwise, then the fan or fan capacitor is bad.

2) If the fuses still blow after unwiring the fan, then do the same with the compressor - remove the wires, replace the fuses, and see if the fuses blow. If the fuses do NOT blow, then you've got a bad compressor. If they do blow, then you've got something else going on (perhaps a bad board, or faulty wiring back to the main panel).

And to add to the pileon - there is no such thing as a Neutral in a 3 wire 240v feed. You've got 2 hot wires, and a ground. Those two hot wires go to a 2 pole breaker somewhere in the main panel box, and that breaker is connected to both sides of your incoming 240v service. Ground is connected to ground, of course.

Your diagram is a 4 wire dryer connection, which DOES have neutral coming into the socket. That neutral wire feeds back to the panel, and connects to the Neutral bus in that panel. Air conditioners have no such feed.
scottmcd9999 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to scottmcd9999 For This Useful Post:
del schisler (07-23-2012)
Old 07-23-2012, 07:54 AM   #19
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 114
Rewards Points: 0
Default

Condenser and fan not running, contactor engaged, have two capacitors


Scott - Thanks. I did not do exactly as you suggested, but this seemed to have the same net effect. Tell me if I'm wrong. The 240V feeds from the contactor go to individual capacitors, and from the capacitors to their respective components (fan motor, compressor). First, I removed the wires from the fan's capacitor and inserted the fuses. The left fuse (on the white leg) blew immediately, and, as expected, did not hear the fan trying to come on. Reconnected the wires to the fan's capacitor and removed the wires from the compressor's capacitor, and the left fuse blew again, but could now hear the fan trying to come on.

Now, I know you told me to disconnect the wires from the motor and compressor directly, but does this not achieve the same thing?

The terminal from the left fuse holder is getting a little gnarled.
7.62 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2012, 08:06 AM   #20
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Augusta, GA
Posts: 369
Rewards Points: 0
Default

Condenser and fan not running, contactor engaged, have two capacitors


A capacitor is only one part of the wiring circuit to those components, so no, that's not the same net effect.

Remove all of the wiring from the fan (some have 3 wires, some have 4 wires) and test. If the fuses blow, remove all the wiring from the compressor (3 wires) and test.
scottmcd9999 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2012, 08:19 AM   #21
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 114
Rewards Points: 0
Default

Condenser and fan not running, contactor engaged, have two capacitors


OK...it was much easier to disconnect the wires from the compressor and fan than I thought (which is why I did it initially from the capacitors). The compressor is the culprit. With its wiring disconnected, the fan roars to life. I was hoping it was the fan that was bad. That seems like an easy fix and not too expensive. The compressor looks a little more difficult. And I'm sure it's quite expensive.
7.62 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2012, 08:54 AM   #22
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Augusta, GA
Posts: 369
Rewards Points: 0
Default

Condenser and fan not running, contactor engaged, have two capacitors


Yes, a compressor replacement would expensive, and is more than a DIYer can handle - plus, you need an EPA card to buy refrigerant, not to mention a recovery machine and such. It's time to call in the professionals.

Note too that putting a compressor in an R-22 system is quite a big band-aid. If the system is more than about 10 years old, it's time to consider replacement with a new R410A system.
scottmcd9999 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2012, 09:15 AM   #23
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 114
Rewards Points: 0
Default

Condenser and fan not running, contactor engaged, have two capacitors


The system is 24 years old. I'll tell you though, our neighbors replaced their system a few years ago (our homes were built around the same time), and they have had non-stop issues with it. Seems that the outdated systems might have been built a little better.

At any rate, I tested each of the terminals on the compressor with the mutlimeter set to ohms, and got no reading on any of the terminals connections with the black multimeter wire always connected to ground. I would think I would get some type of reading if there was a short, etc in the compressor. Is that correct? I did the same with the capacitor and got no reading.
7.62 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2012, 10:14 AM   #24
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Augusta, GA
Posts: 369
Rewards Points: 0
Default

Condenser and fan not running, contactor engaged, have two capacitors


Quote:
I tested each of the terminals on the compressor with the mutlimeter set to ohms, and got no reading on any of the terminals connections with the black multimeter wire always connected to ground
You may or may not get a reading, depending on many factors. Suffice it to say that if the fuses blow when the compressor is connected, and do not blow when it's disconnected ... you've got a ground somewhere inside that compressor

Quote:
The system is 24 years old. I'll tell you though, our neighbors replaced their system a few years ago (our homes were built around the same time), and they have had non-stop issues with it. Seems that the outdated systems might have been built a little better.
IMO you'd be unwise to invest the money for compressor replacement in a 24 year old unit, but of course every circumstance is different.

As to the neighbors ... any line can have problems, but in my experience I've seen far fewer issues with the top tier units like Trane and Carrier. Ruud/Rheem had a good thing going for a while, but I've seen too many issues with leaks and TXVs since they switched over to 410A. Goodman and all the other low tier lines should be avoided, at least in my opinion.

And before I get jumped on for that - those are MY opinions, and my opinions alone. I certainly understand that the quality of the CONTRACTOR is very, very important - but even the best install can't overcome poor design, poor quality of components, poor performance, etc etc.

If I were you, I'd ask around for recommendations of contractors from friends and neighbors. Get a couple of estimates, and make your decision from there. I'd even talk to the neighbors who've had all the troubles, and see what sort of equipment they have, and what sort of trouble they've had with it - and whether the contractor was responsive and has made every effort to resolve it, or whether they're just blowing them off. In other words, don't discount that contractor simply because your neighbor is having troubles. Might not be the contractor's fault.
scottmcd9999 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to scottmcd9999 For This Useful Post:
7.62 (07-23-2012), ben's plumbing (07-23-2012)
Old 07-23-2012, 10:34 AM   #25
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 114
Rewards Points: 0
Default

Condenser and fan not running, contactor engaged, have two capacitors


Any thoughts on York?
7.62 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2012, 10:39 AM   #26
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Augusta, GA
Posts: 369
Rewards Points: 0
Default

Condenser and fan not running, contactor engaged, have two capacitors


We don't see much York down this way, so I have no opinion.
scottmcd9999 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2012, 04:27 PM   #27
An old Tradesmen
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: PA
Posts: 25,098
Rewards Points: 96
Default

Condenser and fan not running, contactor engaged, have two capacitors


Yorks a good brand.

However, your neighbors troubles are probably more from the installing company then whatever brand was installed. So pick a good contractor. Which often means he's not the cheapest or cheaper contractor.
beenthere is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to beenthere For This Useful Post:
ben's plumbing (07-23-2012)
Old 07-23-2012, 07:30 PM   #28
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: MD
Posts: 272
Rewards Points: 0
Default

Condenser and fan not running, contactor engaged, have two capacitors


If your meter has a continuity beep set it to that. Hold one lead on each terminal while at the same time rubbing the other lead on the coper tubing inside the unit. If your meter has enought power (larger or multiple batteries) you will get the beep. you have to rub the copper pipe pretty good at time to pick up the short.
turnermech is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2012, 08:40 AM   #29
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 114
Rewards Points: 0
Default

Condenser and fan not running, contactor engaged, have two capacitors


Quote:
Originally Posted by turnermech View Post
If your meter has a continuity beep set it to that. Hold one lead on each terminal while at the same time rubbing the other lead on the coper tubing inside the unit. If your meter has enought power (larger or multiple batteries) you will get the beep. you have to rub the copper pipe pretty good at time to pick up the short.
Found out my meter doesn't work properly. When the tech got out there, his meter picked up the short. His has a simple continuity setting, mine doesn't...I was setting mine to ohms but still got no reading. He set his to ohms and also picked up a reading...neither of us could get the thing to read the short.

Anyway, shot compressor. New system coming on Friday. Looking forward to that since today we'll be reaching a heat index of 110!

Thanks to everyone for their help, especially Scott.

7.62 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.