Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > HVAC

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 09-28-2013, 01:52 PM   #1
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 3
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Condenser fan noise and then blade breaks.


Hi all. I've got a heck of a head scratcher and was hoping I could bend the forums ear for a moment. My neighbor, a lovely retired senior citizen had me take a look at her outside unit because it was making noise. I've had a hand in a few repairs so I have some knowledge. She had her condenser fan motor and capacitor replaced about 3 months ago.

Tech said to also replace the fan blade, but didn't have one. I contacted the manufacturer and got one for her a few days later and installed it. Her old one would make a growl/vibration sound for about 1/2 a second at start up and then noise would be gone. Tech said the fan was out of balance, hence the replacement. After replacing with one I got from Goodman, #B1086775S-(22", 27 deg pitch), it sounded fine at start up, no noise. Couple of days later it started developing a noise while running, that lasted a couple days and then went away.Funny thing with that noise was when it was running you could give it a little bump with your fist on the top panel above the motor mounting area and the noise would go away, but only for a few seconds. Anyhow, weeks go by and the original growl/vibration sound came back. Well last night it was making a heck of a racket, I could hear it in my house, noise lasted about 1 minute and then a final "crash" sound. I went next door and pulled the circuit breaker, took a peek inside the housing, fan is missing a blade. Further looking and it's lying in the bottom of the unit. It's a miracle in my opinion it did not puncture the coil.

She had her old fan blade so I pulled the broken fan, fired up the motor for a couple of seconds to eliminate it as the problem, then installed the old, original fan. Turned it on, same noise as when it was originally on, that growl/vibration sound. Again, only lasts about 1/2 a second and only at start up. I got to thinking maybe they put in a 1075 RPM motor when the original was an 825 RPM. The motor is an Emerson K55HXCLF-586--1075 RPM, speeds 2, volts 208-230. I did some looking online for what her original motor would be and I found it to be also a 1075 RPM but 1 speed. Her unit is a Goodman CLJ48-1C. I'm afraid that this fan is going to to do the same thing. Anybody have this type of experience?

I'm wondering if I need to look at the height of the blade in relation to the motor when installed on the motor shaft. I'm concerned I'm having a venturi problem with the fan deck. I've tried finding the spec's, but I can't find it. Tech that replaced the motor had installed the fan on the shaft with the hub about 1" from the motor. I replaced the fans in the same location. I wonder if the techs location was wrong and that's what's causing all the noise.

I've attached some pics of the broken fan.
Thanks for any help.
Attached Images
   

whotheguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2013, 02:07 PM   #2
Retired from the grind
 
gregzoll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Midwest - Central Illinois
Posts: 14,294
Rewards Points: 2,250
Default

Condenser fan noise and then blade breaks.


I would pull the motor, and take it to a local motor shop to have them look at it. They can tell if the bearings are shot, and that is causing the problem, or something else.

As long as you get the fan on correct, the motor is true top to bottom, there should not be a problem with it tearing the fan blades up, unless something is catching inside, or the motor is getting ready to go out.

__________________
Ren: Now listen, Cadet. I've got a job for you. See this button? Ren: Don't touch it! It's the History Eraser button, you fool! Stimpy: So what'll happen? Ren: That's just it. We don't know. Maybe something bad, maybe something good. I guess we'll never know, 'cause you're going to guard it. You won't touch it, will you?
gregzoll is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2013, 03:17 PM   #3
An old Tradesmen
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: PA
Posts: 25,580
Rewards Points: 2,840
Default

Condenser fan noise and then blade breaks.


May not have been riveted correctly from factory.
__________________
When posting in certain forums, knowing your location will help others give better feedback/advice/solutions to your questions.
beenthere is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2013, 04:32 PM   #4
Hvac Pro
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Winnipeg, Canada
Posts: 9,628
Rewards Points: 2,394
Default

Condenser fan noise and then blade breaks.


the position of the blade is important in how much air it scoops and how. I try get them mounted so the middle of the blades is inline with the bend in the cowl. hard to describe, the cowl may have a round lip on the inside and that may be the middle position. you don`t want it so low it is under the cowl and not real close to the top either. if you can't figure that out try get the blades about 1" down from the top. better to be close to the top then submerged under the cowl lip.

the other big problem may be that the condenser coil is very dirty and not enough air is going thru or the air pattern is bad. remove the entire fan and backwash/ shoot water thru it as that is the only proper way to clean those coils. then spray water sideways thru the cover to wash/ flush out the crap.
__________________
"Cut it twice and it is still too short".

Last edited by yuri; 09-28-2013 at 04:36 PM.
yuri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2013, 04:42 PM   #5
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 3
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Condenser fan noise and then blade breaks.


Quote:
Originally Posted by yuri View Post
the position of the blade is important in how much air it scoops and how. I try get them mounted so the middle of the blades is inline with the bend in the cowl. hard to describe, the cowl may have a round lip on the inside and that may be the middle position. you don`t want it so low it is under the cowl and not real close to the top either. if you can't figure that out try get the blades about 1" down from the top. better to be close to the top then submerged under the cowl lip.

the other big problem may be that the condenser coil is very dirty and not enough air is going thru or the air pattern is bad. remove the entire fan and backwash/ shoot water thru it as that is the only proper way to clean those coils. then spray water sideways thru the cover to wash/ flush out the crap.

I think you're on the right track Yuri. Although I don't understand about the cowl. Are you referring to slotted, thin metal that wraps the coil? What I did do just now was, went out, pulled the cover with the motor'/fan attached. Loosened the fan and slid it up and down the shaft in about 1/8" increments. Each time I moved it to a new location I tightened it down, put the lid back on and turned it on. Every location, but one, would make the same loud noise. I did find one spot on the shaft that reduces the noise by about 90%. It happens to be roughly 1.4 inches below the motor. I'm going to leave it there and see what happens over time.

I did mean to backwash the coil while I had the cover off, I forgot. I'll be doing that now.

Thanks for the help Yuri.

If anybody else has something that I might try, I'm all ears, but I think I'm
on the right track.

Yuri, I'll try taking some pics of the inside and post them.
whotheguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2013, 06:10 PM   #6
Hvac Pro
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Winnipeg, Canada
Posts: 9,628
Rewards Points: 2,394
Default

Condenser fan noise and then blade breaks.


the cowl is the inside part that diverts air thru the top in my terminology.

yeah take pics of the inside. I do mostly Lennox and they have a rounded inner edge that I use and know well.
__________________
"Cut it twice and it is still too short".

Last edited by yuri; 09-28-2013 at 06:12 PM.
yuri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2013, 06:47 PM   #7
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 3
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Condenser fan noise and then blade breaks.


Here is some pics of the inside and where I last positioned the blade. A little blurry, but you should be able to see how the inside is laid out. Also back-washed the coil, not much in there.
Attached Images
  
whotheguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2013, 07:02 PM   #8
Hvac Pro
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Winnipeg, Canada
Posts: 9,628
Rewards Points: 2,394
Default

Condenser fan noise and then blade breaks.


Yeah Goodman does not have an internal cowl. Just have to play with it until it works OK. on lots of those I have added some foam insulation tape on the top piece the motor attaches to and where it sits on top of the coil to reduce vibration. You may see a small piece there already.
__________________
"Cut it twice and it is still too short".
yuri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2013, 11:43 PM   #9
Experienced HVAC Tech
 
HVAC1000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Northern Colorado
Posts: 357
Rewards Points: 250
Default

Condenser fan noise and then blade breaks.


Quote:
Originally Posted by yuri View Post
Yeah Goodman does not have an internal cowl. Just have to play with it until it works OK. on lots of those I have added some foam insulation tape on the top piece the motor attaches to and where it sits on top of the coil to reduce vibration. You may see a small piece there already.
the nicer goodmans have a cowl those old and cheaper builders grade ones dont have it
HVAC1000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2013, 04:11 AM   #10
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 6
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Condenser fan noise and then blade breaks.


Lock down screw is out...WD40 spray the hub and exposed Shaft. Takes a channel lock and grab the shaft between the "motor and the Blade" turn the hubfan blade area with your hand turn back and forth it Will break loose.... Sand the exposed shaft above the blade so it can slide Off. Be careful with the blades of that fan if they get bent you'll have to get A new one.
Thanks ALL
cruies is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2013, 04:14 AM   #11
Retired from the grind
 
gregzoll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Midwest - Central Illinois
Posts: 14,294
Rewards Points: 2,250
Default

Condenser fan noise and then blade breaks.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cruies View Post
Lock down screw is out...WD40 spray the hub and exposed Shaft. Takes a channel lock and grab the shaft between the "motor and the Blade" turn the hubfan blade area with your hand turn back and forth it Will break loose.... Sand the exposed shaft above the blade so it can slide Off. Be careful with the blades of that fan if they get bent you'll have to get A new one.
Thanks ALL
Say what? Did you bother to read the first post of the thread, to see what is going on?
__________________
Ren: Now listen, Cadet. I've got a job for you. See this button? Ren: Don't touch it! It's the History Eraser button, you fool! Stimpy: So what'll happen? Ren: That's just it. We don't know. Maybe something bad, maybe something good. I guess we'll never know, 'cause you're going to guard it. You won't touch it, will you?
gregzoll is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2013, 07:59 PM   #12
I'm Your Huckleberry
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 5,876
Rewards Points: 2,204
Default

Condenser fan noise and then blade breaks.


825 original rpm is supposed to be replaced with an, if generic, 830 rpm motor. while there are allowances in changing horse power, it should be the same hp as well. each motor coincides with an exact matching capacitior as well.

other than that, the lid the fan mounts to may be out of whack (bent) and/or your condenser coil needs cleaning to assist in proper air flow. Minor as far as vibration, major as far as air flow/condensing/efficiency, the cleaning.

Doc Holliday is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.