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Old 02-06-2013, 09:40 AM   #16
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Commercial freezer Grounding/Neutral help


Quote:
Originally Posted by LFYN View Post
Yes The first breaker was a quad.
I then added a single 20A High Magnetic breaker for appliances and this still tripped.
Which (along with the time aspect) point's you back to the defrost function...
and how that is overloading the circuit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
With it tripping the breaker after 6 hours, sound like a 6 hour defrost interval, or 4 defrost a day, which is appropriate for a below 0F freezer. It could be your defrost time is too long, and making the evap too hot, so the compressor is over worked coming out of defrost. And tripping the breaker.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LFYN
This is my source for originally posting my question. Any comments or suggestions? Seems that they are speaking about 230v. So once again does this also apply to a 115v?. If anyone knows please respond. Thank you
The 115V vs 230V and the neutral/ground questions are a "red herring" put into your head somehow (I suspect by the "refrigeration tech" mentioned in post#1). Ignore this and find another REFR tech.

If they're any good at all they'll also check all the connections
and other work in this dedicated circuit.


Last edited by TarheelTerp; 02-06-2013 at 09:47 AM.
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Old 02-06-2013, 04:34 PM   #17
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Commercial freezer Grounding/Neutral help


230 volt has no neutral.

As for the Supposed True engineer. I doubt he was an engineer. As connecting the neutral and ground together will have no effect on the run capacitor. Most freezers I see, don't have a run capacitor, they have a start capacitor. Which has a bleed resistor across it to bleed the voltage to zero when the compressor is off. Freezer with a run capacitor, the capacitor does not store power/voltage. It also bleeds off through the motor windings.

So no, having the 2 connected back at the box won't harm the freezer/compressor under normal conditions.

Perhaps if you posted the brand and model number of the freezer, we could better help you.
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Old 02-06-2013, 04:40 PM   #18
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Commercial freezer Grounding/Neutral help


The model is a Randell 2020F. Thank you for your your help.
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Old 02-06-2013, 05:22 PM   #19
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Commercial freezer Grounding/Neutral help


Can't find much on it. Compressor is small enough 20 amp should be no problem under normal conditions. Do you know what the defrost heaters are rated at? KW?
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Old 02-06-2013, 05:52 PM   #20
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Commercial freezer Grounding/Neutral help


Update- Ok I could never find anywhere in print or on the unit tags what amp breaker it needed. I just assumed a 20 amp because of the 5-20p plug.
Now I read and please correct me if I'm wrong, that hvac appliances as air conditioners, freezers, etc with compressors and protected motors could use a higher rated breaker then the awg wires called for. Anyway to make a long story short, I replaced the 20 amp with a 25 amp using 12awg wiring with the 20 amp receptacle. I then babysat and watched. The unit went all the way down to its preset temp (-4). And the compressor turned off and the condensing fans inside continued to do Thier job. The unit slowly warmed up to 0 and the compressor turned back on, once again to cool back down to 0. I think this is the first time it has done this. After it restarted I checked the power cord, receptacle and breaker to see if they were warm or hot. None were.

Now, is this SAFE and is it CODE? Thank you
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Old 02-06-2013, 06:03 PM   #21
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Commercial freezer Grounding/Neutral help


Quote:
Originally Posted by LFYN View Post
Update- Ok I could never find anywhere in print or on the unit tags what amp breaker it needed.
I just assumed a 20 amp because of the 5-20p plug
(and the 15.8Amps you referred to as being on the rating plate)
In the first post you said this was a new install.

Is this not a new freezer?
Do you not have the owners manual? LINK
Who did you buy it from?

Quote:
I then babysat and watched. The unit went all the way down to its preset temp (-4). And the compressor turned off and the condensing fans inside continued to do thier job.
Did you babysit with an Amprobe to monitor the actual draw?

Last edited by TarheelTerp; 02-06-2013 at 06:06 PM.
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Old 02-06-2013, 06:07 PM   #22
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Commercial freezer Grounding/Neutral help


Quote:
Originally Posted by LFYN View Post
Update- Ok I could never find anywhere in print or on the unit tags what amp breaker it needed. I just assumed a 20 amp because of the 5-20p plug.
Now I read and please correct me if I'm wrong, that hvac appliances as air conditioners, freezers, etc with compressors and protected motors could use a higher rated breaker then the awg wires called for. Anyway to make a long story short, I replaced the 20 amp with a 25 amp using 12awg wiring with the 20 amp receptacle. I then babysat and watched. The unit went all the way down to its preset temp (-4). And the compressor turned off and the condensing fans inside continued to do Thier job. The unit slowly warmed up to 0 and the compressor turned back on, once again to cool back down to 0. I think this is the first time it has done this. After it restarted I checked the power cord, receptacle and breaker to see if they were warm or hot. None were.

Now, is this SAFE and is it CODE? Thank you
The larger breaker is allowed on MOTOR ONLY LOADS. The freezer is not a motor only load. It has defrost heaters. So no, its not allowed to be on a 25 amp breaker using 12 gauge wire.

Look on its tag, to see if it list a max breaker size.
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Old 02-06-2013, 06:14 PM   #23
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Commercial freezer Grounding/Neutral help


No, the unit was a new install for me, the unit was from a liquidation sale. I just mentioned new because I was looking for help and didnt want someone to assume that I had been using this unit prior and that the problem just started. Also I downloaded the manual right from Randell. It gives almost everything else I need to know, but no where does it mention actual wiring requirements other then it being 115v and 15.8 amps with a 5-20p plug. And I wish I had all the electrical diagnostic tools and the know how, but I dont.
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Old 02-06-2013, 06:22 PM   #24
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Commercial freezer Grounding/Neutral help


This is the tag inside of unit.
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Old 02-06-2013, 06:26 PM   #25
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Commercial freezer Grounding/Neutral help


You might have to invest in some tools to monitor the amperage with a readout date and time of failure to get a better picture of what's happening with the equipment. Also a chart reader to record temperature swings and times of failures. It's a start.
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Old 02-06-2013, 06:27 PM   #26
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Commercial freezer Grounding/Neutral help


This is the tag inside of unit.
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Old 02-06-2013, 06:27 PM   #27
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Commercial freezer Grounding/Neutral help


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Originally Posted by LFYN View Post
No, the unit was a new install for me, the unit was from a liquidation sale.
Then (as has been repeated) the UNIT is the suspect. Not the wiring.
The earlier focus on the wiring was because we all assumed it was a new machine.

Quote:
Also I downloaded the manual...
but no where does it mention actual wiring requirements other then it being 115v and 15.8 amps with a 5-20p plug.
That's enough info to know 120V and 20A circuit.
The new ones say 15.4A.

Quote:
And I wish I had all the electrical diagnostic tools and the know how, but I dont.
You don't need them... but you DO need a better refrig mechanic.
(but if inclined get a VolCon and an Amp meter)
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Old 02-06-2013, 06:37 PM   #28
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Commercial freezer Grounding/Neutral help


Ok then, if the unit is running and cycling fine and it is a short run, I could then replace the 12AWG with 10AWG. This would result in 10AWG wiring, protected by a 25 amp breaker, with a 115v, 15.4 amp Freezer appliance with a factory installed 5-20p plug, on a dedicated line. Good or no good?
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Old 02-06-2013, 06:56 PM   #29
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Commercial freezer Grounding/Neutral help


Tarheelterp, thank you for your advice and even the critique, I just want this to be safe and right. The reason I suspected the wiring is cause I observed the tech
Measure the draw amps when the compressor started up at exactly 15.4, and then running at 11.8, and then in defrost it was 8 something, don't remember for sure. So with my limited knowledge it seemed that the freezer was in specs. Still learning here tho, and everyone has given me good advice, I appreciate this forum and all your help, thank you.
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Old 02-06-2013, 07:11 PM   #30
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Commercial freezer Grounding/Neutral help


Quote:
Originally Posted by LFYN View Post
Ok then, if the unit is running and cycling fine...
That really hasn't been determined yet.

Quote:
I observed the tech measure the draw amps when the compressor started up at exactly 15.4, and then running at 11.8, and then in defrost it was 8 something, don't remember for sure.
Good. It may be fine. I hope so.
I'm still curious about the defrost timer beenthere mentioned.

If this is all true...
then a good breaker on a well installed circuit will not be tripping.

Quote:
...and it is a short run, I could then replace the 12AWG with 10AWG. This would result in 10AWG wiring, protected by a 25 amp breaker
You're still focused on the symptom. Find and solve the problem.

Going back to about post #2...
have you diligently gone over all the wire and connections?
Pinched? Scuffed insulation? Loose screws? Missing grounds?
Something elemental isn't right.


Last edited by TarheelTerp; 02-06-2013 at 07:14 PM.
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